Some of the justifcations for Grab are complaining about permanent SA/FG rotations.

So lets take a look at what is really going on.

They are RIGHT!!

Perma SA/FG is ridiculous.  Especially on ranged classes that can CC and be protected nearly all of the time.  This is bad design.

It's broken.  It shouldn't be in the game.

They are also RIGHT!!

However, all the anti Grab arguments are also correct.  Grab essentially takes 100% SA/FG rotations and makes them 0%.

This is also terrible design and doesn't solve anything.

Summary:

100% Protections are Bad for the game

0% Protections are Bad for the game

There should have been a middle ground.  Both of these systems remain completely broken in the game today.  There is no way to balance around mechanics that don't fundamentally work at all.

Having some trouble figuring out what you mean by "100% protections". 

I'm willing to bet my arm and leg I PVP more than you do (honestly, I've never seen your name in game, not in a single RBF or anything), and not a single class in the game has "100% protections".  Even Succession Wizard and their plethora of protected moves have gaps in the skill rotations.  Even Archer, who needs to fight at range, who uses protected moves to kite has gaps.  As a Sorc player, who has iframes and cancels in compensation for a LACK of reliable protected CC and grab, I know this quite well -- from experience.

Can you provide me a class and that class' skill rotation that produces this "100% Protections"?

EDIT:  Also, I noticed this.  And I quote, "Perma SA/FG is ridiculous.  Especially on ranged classes that can CC and be protected nearly all of the time."  I boldened the words that stood out to me.  You mention "100% Protection" and mention "Perma SA/FG" and then say "be protected 'nearly' all of the time".  So what is it?  Perma / 100% or just "nearly" all of the time?  I think you don't know what you're talking about, or are trying to spin some weird argument based on faulty, bad arguments.  Sorry.  It just something that stood out to me.

Hes talking about the full protection on some classes as an example  from the class currently the biggest issue. Witchards are 100% immune to CC except for a grab  . Most  damage comes from when someone is CCed a class like this that cant be CCed takes less overall damage unless you grab them. and having a class only  weak to grabs is just stupid. they then continue to complain about how they have no way to dodge it yet its the only way they will ever die.

https://youtu.be/YaFFbR2NrfM

This is a video of Jackie Felix well known on NA for being one of the best succ wiz fighting Tehbomb also well known on NA for being one of the best Rangers.

I probably rbf more than anyone else on NA and fight against both of them regularly which both outgear me by about 50gs so they both usually run me over pretty easilly and both of them usually dominate rbf when they play finishing with anywhere from 500-1000 points regularly.

In the fight you can pretty clearly see the ranger also has the ability to stay protected a majority of the time like the succ wiz and with the grab usually puts her over the top.

If Jackie Felix was an awaken wiz this fight would be sick to watch.3 less movement skills than succ wiz Tehbomb would grab rape an awaken wiz up and down BA all day and likely never die once.In large scale an awaken wiz would look alittle better but even in large scale battles your going to get in 1v1 fights pretty often and thats why even in largescale a ranger will dominate over an awaken wiz,although against succ wiz rangers tend to end rbfs with about the same points roughly.Both are generally on the very high side if geared.

Im at 675 gs and usually end rbf with anywhere from 50-300 points depending on how geared the enemies are.I can get alot of kills but they are usually low point undergeared players.I dont kill many players that have 100+ points.

As far as the topic goes I agree with what hes saying for the most part.

and thats why even in largescale a ranger will dominate over an awaken wiz,although against succ wiz rangers tend to end rbfs with about the same points roughly.Both are generally on the very high side if geared.

Geez you do not stop do you................

Im a hybrid class I know Im strong at range but compared to succ and awakening witchards in large scale I am nuked if I even go near the frontline. My grab on succession wiz gets me killed if it failes and 90% of the time it does fail because you can hit the iframe  and it will dodge even though the target is still there. Awakening Witchards sure are a garenteed grab but your kidding yourself if you think giving them more mobility or a iframe to dodge the grab is a good idea.Its not you end up with the same issue as succession.

I  never said Ranger was weak so not sure what point your trying to make with this.

No you dont stop,you spew garbage every day on the forums.You make every post about succ wiz.You completely neglected half of what the op said about grabs and went for the wiz part of your agenda.

Every thread in the wiz forums your all over.You even complain and say awaken wiz is op while playing a class that can run it over and rape it up and down any battlefield,1v1,small,medium or largescale and still cry about it.

guaranteed grab on mages - balanced.

u sound like a true champion of balancing.

You need not worry he isn't trying to understand it or have a conversation.

It is a discussion about how both sides are wrong and how broken everything is.  It's about understanding the overall picture as well and not being narrow minded and limited to your own class.

I could see the annoyance of a non grab class trying to fight someone that is sitting in block constantly.  Or trying to fight someone that has constant super armors and FG up.  I also see the other side of how absurd it is for a Zerker or Lahn to just blatantly disregard all these protections.

Grab IS broken ------- all the old posts about it are correct.

However,

So was lingering SA, 360 block, Iframe spam, and questionable protection rotations.  This includes things like Succ Wizard that couples their protections along with the double teleport.  I'm pretty sure a lot of people know how broken Valk still is today on this as well.

I mean your right and thats why my suggested changes to Witchards fix the issue. you give them a frontal gaurd instead of super armor you limit how long they can stay around well also opening them up to more forms of CC from the other angles. Positioning would then become key just like the rest of the classes in the game your out of position you are dead. The issue is Witchards are only killable if a grab lands. and I agree valk abuses this stuff as well but shes also not nuking 10-15 people at a time. ( without her ulti)

Grab is broken I agree but until the classes that litterally  require it to be shut down are nerfed and tuned in a fair way they have no right to complain and ask for a iframe to dodge it.

My class is fine as is probably one of the more fair ones I am a twig I cut through evasion like butter with the right gear and build. If things got fixed I would be fine with losing my grab but right now if an assassin even sneezes near me I am dead so having that button to get them out of the back line and shut them down is kind of required given Archer doesnt really have a way to deal with it either. althought he cooldown of the grab should be increased once things are fixed.

I see the overall picture and the overall picture with the right balancing is PVP where every class can flourish if they have the skill right now we do not have that. you have Zerkers, Tamers, musa, mehwa that are just being eaten alive by AOE damage and CC. Theres probably more classes then that but thats my top 4 I see struggling and struggling hard.

this isnt true as we very often just get killed in our SAs because we(awaken) cannot move and have to soak damage (both melee and ranged) and then just drop dead. and we can tank WAY less than other melee classes, trust me.

and no, 1 teleport distance every 7 seconds doesnt bring u to this safe magical wonderland where enemies leave u alone.