A lot of quality of life changes, which are very welcome. I will skip the parts that are great and won't comment on good changes, but instead talk about the not so good changes. I don't want to sound negative, just a disclaimer that there are some really good changes in the rework so far.

First of all, the elefant in the room, at least for a lot of tamers: 

We don't understand why we've received such a huge overhaul of Heilang Riding. We view it as a gimmick at best, as it isn't viable in any content (PVE or PVP). Even after the reboot changes, attacks are still slow and low damage as before, stamina usage is still huge, there isn't any protection from damage or CC while riding heilang, no HP or MP recovery on skills, movement is clunky and restrictive. When you ride Heilang, you are just a huge visible target and you are of no threat to anyone. And honestly we would prefer if there was more attention paid to the actual gameplay than this Heilang Riding. However if Pearl Abyss really thinks this is the way to go, we don't know how to get this simple message across: Heilang is always secondary priority for Tamer , and we really really want our Class skills to be looked at first.

Awakening

As PA has stated in their previous Reboot patches, awakening Tamer suffers from low AoE impact and this hurts awakening performance in PVE especially. And even though some skills have been adjusted in this regard, we still think the changes were really negligible. Succession state still outperforms Awakening state by a huge margin. 

I suggest skills like Allround spinner, Legendary Beast Dance, Celestial slam, Beast Rampage, Moonrise Strike be looked at again, specifically for PVE performance. Also, some Absolute versions of Shortsword skills really need some attention too, as is known Tamer gameplay relies on utilizing both weapons in it's combos.

Lets talk PVP now:

It feels like PA's only answer to Tamer's rework since the beginning of time was always just to slap more damage % to skills and call it buffed and fixed (or reduce damage in other cases). I know that's not entirely the case, but it's just what it always feels like. TAMER IS NOT LACKING DAMAGE! And honestly this approach is just unhealthy for the game in general: ask any PVPer if they feel there is a huge power creep in BDO. All classes just get more and more damage..

What Tamer (and other classes) needs is more quality changes.

   ● I applaud the attempt to rework the Heilang control commands, but so far it's not looking good: Heilang just doesn't always respond to our actions as it's supposed to. Sometimes Heilang just chooses the wrong target (if there are more targets than one) or he just doesn't attack the one target that's in front of us. Also Heilang's actions usually just get canceled if I get hit with anything. Also it feels clunky and slow to change Heilang attack modes in the heat of the battle.

   ● The new Legendary Beast Dance: Echo flow is also interesting, but its just... not necessary (?). With our current kit as is, this new Echo tool just doesn't add anything useful to our gameplay (other than some filler damge skill, but it just doesn't do a lot of damage anyway, so why use it...). It's not protected from CC or damage while using skill, so it's just another added risk to use it in combat, and we already have a lot of risky combat moves.

   ● Allround spinner and Legendary Beast Dance frankly need some damage and AoE increases. They are just useless skills right now and there is just no reason to use them in PVP when we have this overpowered Intimadation -> Celestial Slam -> Beast rampage skill combo. I would much rather prefer a more overall balanced and useful awakening kit.

  ● Please allow us to animation cancel Celestial Slam.

Succession

I can't really talk about Succession state with a lot of confidence that I know what I'm talking about. So I hope other tamers who are much better than me with succession gameplay can chip in with that.

Also...
What have you done to Scratch and Surging Tide CC effects? They are not in the patch notes anywhere, so I hope it's just some sort of bug, but just let me tell you that these changes really left us Tamers scratching our heads with a question: why?

   ● Scratch stiffness CC wasn't overpowered, it was actually really balanced and it allowed tamer some form of tricky PvP gameplay while maintaining movement momentum in engagements. Scratch skill itself has really low AoE range and it requires you to be there in the fight up close and personal, but thats why we love this skill so much! Tamers can't remain in the fight for prolonged time, because Tamer is weak and frail and squishy, we die easily just from the huge random damage everywhere from casters and other classes big AoE nukes. Scratch is just a small tool to sometimes turn things around unexpectedly.

   ● Same story with Surging Tide knock back effect: we tamers usually fight in a hit and run style of PvP, and we provoke other players to chase after us and make them think think they can run us down.

Seriously, these changes really REALLY hurt Succession state performance in PVP and also hurts Awakening as it removes variety from our gameplay.

Please don't make Tamer's only tool to engage an opponent just a grab and heilang ability spam, as that's just super boring gameplay...

Well that so-called rework is more QoL and nerf patch for now because we get less than we loose

Nothing is fixed at all just those on the console will play Tamer easier, that is all, and Tamer will get weaker overall because other classes will be stronger than before 

Many are mistaken that some QoL changes will make difference but after all Tamer will be a tier lower than now in all PvE, PvP and mass PvP and that is because we get QoL or no changes that will make difference but other get better changes

Some things that wasnt mentioned :

- The ability to chase targets is still bad and succession tamer is even more doomed with just 2 skills, but the casters get a mobility skill for example ...

- Succession protected dmg in mass PvP when ? one FG and new faster Roaring are not the answer ...

- Succession HP is awful you need inf HP pot as default ... 

- WW part iframe is a joke and is a more joke when Ninja/Kuno get their skill from Iframe/Sa to full iframe but Tamer get nothing...

- Tamer is a "paper" class and we got rework of our /slow activation on Succ and lower duration on both awake( 10s on 13 s CD) and succ (5s /5s) /  evasion buffs by removing them nice, isn't it? and when they make rework of the passive on Tamer they gave 150 more stamina ... WOW amazing ...

- AOE is still bad you can't hit 10 orcs ... /why do they make so fat monsters?/

and so on we waste so much time typing and wasting time when PA do what they want

For sure with that rework won't catch other new released classes like was announced is the target of the rework/reboot and she will be far from older too.

Sad tamer noise

Hello there,

i say sorry for my bad english at the beginning, so be please patient.

When i heard about a "Rework" i was hoping about a big rework for the old classes, not only balancing work.

Maybe i was to naive ^^;

I am a main Tamer succ and play pvp and pve, since i play that game (nearly two years). I hoped that the dev, will make the Tamer to a real "Tamer" that core of the gameplay is Heilang. I say, that perl abyss try to do things in the game better, like Agris fever, possibility of pen gear for someyone with less luck, and others. for that, Thanks :)

To make Heilang as the core of the Tamer Gameplay i thinked something about to make it Unique. I list here some idea, if the devs will be thinking about to rework later on the basis of the idea of the Class. (Like Mystic as Magekiller and Gardia as a bit Slow DD with high damage and protection).

Stats and Damage:

Heilang need tha same stats like the tamer. All stats, except the hp, it have to be the more than that from the tamer something like 150% from Tamer HP

Heilang will be then killable, and if it is killet, then is a cooldown needed like 3 min.

In that cose to not beeing overpowered the base damage of Tamer and have to be adjusted. The Tamer Damage have to be hard nerved and from heilang hard buffed, so the Tamer cannot deals enough Damage in pve, without Heilang and cannot do a killcombo in pvp without Heilang.

Control:

The Quality of Life updates for the Tamer, that is in that rework are great, so you can switch the Mode of the ai of Heilang. additional it were be nice if it were possible to say Heilang "Attack all enemys in a area und dont come back until i summon it or all enemys are dead"

But for more Control about the Heilang skills it were be nice, if you can manage the Skills of Heilang to manage your skill Combos. It is meaning, that you can manually link Heilang Skills with Tamer skills, but only 1 time for evry Heilang skills. A Heilang Skill Tree were be nice too, were you can skill heilang Skills and can lock them. A other idea were that you can use the heilang Skills fully manualy so can say him, what skill he have to use while the Tamer is using its own skills without delay.

That are only some Ideas i had, if i think about make the Tamer to a Tamer.

I think the idea of all classes have to be importent for its Gameplay, so have please more focus about that so the classes can be more unique.

Thats all what i wanting to say. I want anyway say thanks to perl abyss for making the gamer withe the time with small changes better :)

What would have been nice, is a switch with Heilang. Pretty simple to understand, when skil is cast, you get to Heilang when Heilang get to you. That would have made a legendary switch and completely random position in pvp. 

Compare to other class, we are lacking of "long distance move" with Iframe. Except moon light slash ( which is not a Iframe ) in succession pvp is not even thinkable.

Just by adding a simple switch ( with some few restriction : distance, cool down, side effect etc .. ) it would have adjust, just a slightly, our performance in succession on pvp.  

Just got off the Global Labs Version of  Sucession Tamer

Am I the only one who think this Tamer Reboot isn't complete.

Gameplay wise, she feels more stationary...but it could just me not getting use to the Prime: Throatburn change even after trying to get use to it for 5+ hours.

Rest in Piece to Soaring Arts Tamers...Very fun playstyle and gave Tamer a new  identity of Freedom and different playstyles..sadly we're now being forced into a direction that focus more on..."Meta"

Heilang Movement while riding is also still  weird.  The concept is there and It has potential to being "Fun" but no direction on getting the idea to work correctly without trying to spend Dev Time to other character intime to reach Deadlines.

But..guess it's better than nothing.

Hopefully next year we can get some more Heilang love.

Lets Mark our Calenders for the Tamer Nerf Reboot. :)

How about you just delete class. Focus on zerker striker warrior give nova more dmg and protection instead, like you are just doing every times. Once the reworks are released tamer will be one of the least player character its already is btw. Tamer is supposed to be a mobile high dmg but squishy class now we have some dmg, not mobile at all compared 80% of the other classes ( protected movement ) and classes like ninja striker nova zerker all hard out damage a supposed high hitting class.  The only thing we got going for us is being squishy. And the only good thing on this rework is the Void lighting BUG fix that was in the game for like 2 years and I have even send clips of it in tickets but you people just dont care about this ever since you cucked it with the class % changes. even before that we were one of the least player charaters.

PA Devs,

Awakened Tamer perspective after the December 3rd, 2021 patch; in my view the rework clearly focused on:

1. Mounted Heilang Combat

2. Beast Rampage

3. Heilang Effects

4. QoL fixes and backlog

New Skill will be added to replace Flow: Cloud Ride

Please clarify on whether you still intend to implement an additional skill as stated here:

There is confusion surrounding this statement. Many have assumed that the rework of Ultimate: Echo Pierce and the "new skill" are one and the same. You have referenced the Ultimate: Echo Pierce as a renamed skill, a reorganization, a reworked skill, and in the December 3rd patch notes it is summarized as:

Ultimate: Echo Pierce Skill has been changed to the flow Skill of the Legendary Beast Dance: Echo Skill.

Will any new skill be added to the awakening kit "In addition to this" as originally stated in the blue text above?

QoL Fixes and Backlog

Some of these changes are great, thanks. In that category Air Lightning, Soaring Strike, Beast Rampage, ways to obtain the 3rd hit effect of +15% all accuracy from Awakening: Daru's Celestial Bo Staff while fighting, and equalizing the Cloud Stomping and Flow: Cloud Ride cooldowns all come to mind. Largely, these are QoL updates and fixes for existing issues on live servers and buffs to our utility e.g. Air Lightning finally applying the effects of Void Lightning, and new ways to apply the +15% accuracy buff from superarmor. Now that the period for new work has passed, I wish to focus on housekeeping items that would be straightforward to implement before December 22nd and match up with your stated intentions for the rework:

Switch the Core: Beast Rampage Forward Guard for the Beast Rampage Bound Effect, and increase Beast Rampage's Forward Range.

Beast Rampage had 3 hits added to last hit, floating removed from last hit, +200% damage added to each hit, and some lateral range added to its AoE. Together with new methods of obtaining +15% all accuracy while in superarmor directly before using Beast Rampage this undeniably is a buff to our hardest hitting skill. Further, it clarifies your intent to orient the Awakened Tamer around Beast Rampage, in our view. To fulfill that intent to our satisfaction, two adjustments must be made:

1. Forward range increase to account for targets being pushed out of range by the downsmashes of Flow: Intimation or Celestial Slam or Flow: Full Moon, all three skills very likely to be typical before Beast Rampage after the rework.

2. Switch the Core: Beast Rampage forward guard effect with the bound effect of the Beast Rampage skill. The reworked Flow: Full Moon flowing from Legendary Beast Dance would make more sense if we could experiment with Core: Legendary Beast Dance in a serious way.

Revert the Flow: Full Moon animation to the old animation, or swap it's new animation with the new Legendary Beast Resonance: Echo animation for Azure Dragon

The way "accel" works is by hit-cancelling on the precise frame of Flow: Intimation, Legedary Beast Dance: Vermillion Bird, Garuda, or the last hit of Beast Rampage wherein the float is applied. The hit cancel is accomplished with Legendary Beast Power, then the inputs for Moonlight Strike, and Flow: Full Moon are entered with precise timing to accomplish all the hits applying to the enemy in an "accel"erated window of time. Tamers love the feeling of using accel, though it proves a very small advantage if any in PvE or PvP. Watch 2s of my scuffed grinding for an example of using accel in PvE.

Specifically we want you to restore the "accel" mechanic. The new numbers for Flow: Full Moon are appreciated, as is the new interaction with Legendary Beast Dance and the accuracy buff before Beast Rampage. Keep those as is. However, the downsmash effect and new animation fell flat with us and we want the fulfulling hit-cancelling of "accel" back in the kit. Since the Azure Dragon version of Resonating Beast Dance: Echo is just a reskinned version of the old Flow: Full Moon animation, it probably has the same hit-cancelling behaviour as the old animation and we would prefer that it be assigned as the new Flow: Full Moon animation.

Restore the old Throat Burn animation exactly where Flurry of Kicks currently exists in the skill tree.

Similar to Flow: Full Moon, the Throat Burn animation and the vertical techniques precipitated from it are seen as a feature not a bug. Even if you perceive it as a bug internally, externally this animation has generated thousands upon thousands of positive interactions on YouTube (Froxin, Mesuka, ScarletSeraph, WaffleBat's Recent Guide). You simply overwrote it, eliminating future content of this kind. The skill you overwrote it with is a new skill in terms of effects, animation, and purpose that has nothing to do with the existingThroat Burn. Had you used it to overwrite the utterly useless skill Flurry of Kicks, Tamers would have approved unanimously.

Nobody was complaining about the Soaring Arts playstyle, so I imagine this was not intended. Just restore the animation to the kit in whatever way you deem appropriate. The new Throat Burn has virtually nothing in common with the Throat Burn it replaced. There is no interaction or tradeoff whatsoever between new and old Throat Burn, merely a semantic connection. Just restore the old animation in some manner, over Flurry of Kicks or on it's own or as a flow.

Buff the damage of Resonance to be meaningful chip damage in PvP again.

I tabulated the expected damage of each awakening skill and important combinations of skills on live servers vs. global labs:

*** if there is a typical modifier expected when you bother using the skill, like down attack (e.g. Beast Rampage) or air attack (e.g. Celestial Slam), I applied it. Crit was caulcated expecting 20% from +5 critical and 20% from skill addons in most situations.

As you can see our damage literally is Beast Rampage. There was a time that Resonance did damage, and it was glorious - it felt amazing. We'll be trying to use sequences other than Celestial Slam into Beast Rampage now with the rework (the combos with no live equivalent in the chart) given Celestial Slam remains uncancellable and unprotected. So, if you must keep it all "balanced" take some of that Celestial Slam damage and reallocate it to Resonance in PvP. Adjust the PvP reduction % up for Celestial Slam, and down for Resonance by a decent bit more than you brought Celestial Slam up because Resonance is on a 13s cooldown. Compared to Beast Rampage at 4s, and Celestial Slam at 6s.

Let Flow: Hidden Claw be used to either side during Tree Climb again.

We are pleased that you have restored the Scratch stiffness and Surging Tide knockback, thank you for doing the right thing by us here. However, given the overall increase in difficulty that using the reworked Tree Climb with those janky inputs will present, removing Flow: Hidden Claw to either side during Tree Climb seems completely unecessary when the forward version is working. The animation and initial design of Flow: Hidden Claw is excellent and feels fantastic to use, this is something you already did right the first time. Let it be.

Heilang Effects: Issues With the Reworked Effects Remain

Heilang effects remain unreliable and inconsistent even after the December 3rd, 2021 patch to Global Labs:

Mounted Heilang Combat Is Our Lowest Priority and Always Was!

We feel mounted Heilang combat ended up dominating the development schedule. Implementing and testing the mounted Heilang combat animations, and effectively creating a prototype for a new "Heilang class" has IMHO clearly come at the expense of the Tamer's kit itself to a degree. Even if you spend the additional time required to make this "third spec" viable, it may well only be used for selfies, montage intros, and memes after December 22nd releases it to live servers. However, any of the changes mentioned above you can be 100% sure we will appreciate.

Conclusion

There is not much left to do to reach an overall positive impression of the rework for Tamer, but if it remains undone unfortunatley the general opininon seems to be negative as it is. Even clear statements committing to some or all of the above would have a large and immediate positive impact on the overall feeling about the Tamer rework IMHO. We all understand that this was a large undertaking, but BDO is a large undertaking for players as well - we support you, financially and in spirit, because we like your game and we like to play our favorite classes in the game. Please show us the courtesy of sharing information with us. The reworks have made it obvious that despite the recent efforts, the company's communication with the larger community and even the selected representative partners in the community still has some disconnects - especially the Global Labs test server and associated release of the patch notes.

- Gunrocks