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Class modifiers
Nov 24, 2021, 08:41 (UTC)
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Last Edit :
Nov 25, 2021, 13:49 (UTC)
# 11
even more.
if it's relative damage (100% = nonchange), how is it possible that Shai is arpund 50%?
Does it means that Shai deal half damage in pvp compared to pve? or compared to other class?
Last Edit :
Nov 25, 2021, 14:54 (UTC)
# 12
On: Nov 25, 2021, 13:49 (UTC), Written by monai
You can see the patch from June 30, 2020, the kakaogame page has been removed, English speaking players can see the announcement on the SEA server
Here is the link: https://www.sea.playblackdesert.com/News/Notice/Detail?boardNo=4125&countryType=en-US&boardType=2&searchType=&searchText=& currentPage=7
Thank you very much! I'll give a good read, as I am still not sure how to read this.
But I agree with the general sentiments that it's kinda weird and nonsensical to have class vs class modifiers
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Lv 61
Ylvalaric
Last Edit :
Nov 25, 2021, 15:41 (UTC)
# 13
On: Nov 25, 2021, 05:57 (UTC), Written by Seeryus
sounds like your class profits from the system and double dips into defensive stats. :p
I mean it would benefit even more if there were no class modifiers, but my class had +100 passive DR or 20% evasion instead. I'd take that any day tbh. So much more potential for broken builds there.
On: Nov 25, 2021, 10:58 (UTC), Written by monai
If you have played witch, wizard and DK against mystic and striker, you will understand how stup the damage ratio is.not to mention that their magic defence is 50.
The damage ratio was proposed in 2017.It was revised once by 2020. Now that it's closer to 2022, these stup things should be removed.
It is more than fine, none of those classes are supposed to kill gauntlets by brainlessly slinging aoe damage. It's working as intended, learn to use other tools (like slows) than just spamming skills brainafk. Also DK damage against gauntlets is not even bad. Whatever those hypocrites are telling you, stop eating it.
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Lv 62
Pukkuksong
Last Edit :
Nov 25, 2021, 16:38 (UTC)
# 14
On: Nov 25, 2021, 15:41 (UTC), Written by thdqd
I mean it would benefit even more if there were no class modifiers, but my class had +100 passive DR or 20% evasion instead. I'd take that any day tbh. So much more potential for broken builds there.
It is more than fine, none of those classes are supposed to kill gauntlets by brainlessly slinging aoe damage. It's working as intended, learn to use other tools (like slows) than just spamming skills brainafk. Also DK damage against gauntlets is not even bad. Whatever those hypocrites are telling you, stop eating it.
well, we could ask the question - why do gauntlets and shields dont have any issues killing these other classes, if they are meant to be tanky, they should deal considerably less damage and just be bruisers/tanks.
as it is some classes are tanky but still have very decent kill potential, even with lower ap in some cases.
Last Edit :
Nov 25, 2021, 20:10 (UTC)
# 15
On: Nov 25, 2021, 15:41 (UTC), Written by thdqd
It is more than fine, none of those classes are supposed to kill gauntlets by brainlessly slinging aoe damage. It's working as intended, learn to use other tools (like slows) than just spamming skills brainafk. Also DK damage against gauntlets is not even bad. Whatever those hypocrites are telling you, stop eating it.
How about proper full combos still not killing equal geared opponents?
Last Edit :
Nov 25, 2021, 21:17 (UTC)
# 16
On: Nov 25, 2021, 05:02 (UTC), Written by thdqd
So it's been 1.5 years and people still can't wrap their heads around the class modifiers, completely misunderstanding the point of them and why it is a good system.
You are reading it wrong, there is no meaning comparing the modifiers of different classes against the same targets to each other, e.g. if Kuno has 105.53% and DK 94.16% against sorc, it does not mean that Kuno does more damage than DK, and it takes five minutes of playing each class to find that out. That is because the class damage passes through several layers, such as skill damage and pvp modifiers (which is a good thing btw, as more independent layers allow to fine-tune the balance better).
The only thing that matters here is the differences between the modifiers a particular attacker class gets against different targets. E.g. if DK has 94.16% against Ninja and 86.04% against valk, is means that DK does less base damage against Valk than Ninja, but Mystic having 108.77
% and 100.66% against those same two classes does not mean that Mystic does more damage than DK. It does however mean that Mystic also does less base damage against Valk than Ninja.
Why do some classes have to receive less damage than others (such as gauntlets for example)? Could that be because they are melee classes with no means of mitigating damage like real blocks and spammable iframes? They take less damage from every class btw, not just magic ones. Why modifiers instead of giving them some extra dr or evasion? Probably because doing that has the potential of causing scaling issues (extra dr would make them immortal against low AP attackers, and evasion would have similar results + make it scale way better with high evasion gear), while the modifiers are consistent across all gear and builds.
In short, if your class has lower numbers in its row doesn't mean that it's getting shafted, only the relationship between them within the same row matters. Having lower numbers in the column though means that your class is generally tankier. Class modifiers allow making certain classes (mostly melee brawler classes, except Guardian) tankier without risk of running into scaling issues. Guess what, that's good for balancing.
This is BS.
Are you even aware, that abilities alredy have a PvP damage reduction in the first place?
Those class modifiers (should) have only one purpose, to balance the matchups. At 100% class modifier every class already (should) do the same damage generally as the ability PvP modifiers already handle it, hence what you write is BS.
btw even not counting these, literately one of the most protected class in the game have the best modifier in general, which is the exact opposite of your "argument"....
Last Edit :
Nov 26, 2021, 08:38 (UTC)
# 17
Am 25. Nov 2021, 15:41 (UTC), von thdqd
I mean it would benefit even more if there were no class modifiers, but my class had +100 passive DR or 20% evasion instead. I'd take that any day tbh. So much more potential for broken builds there.
It is more than fine, none of those classes are supposed to kill gauntlets by brainlessly slinging aoe damage. It's working as intended, learn to use other tools (like slows) than just spamming skills brainafk. Also DK damage against gauntlets is not even bad. Whatever those hypocrites are telling you, stop eating it.
the second statement that witch/wiz arent supposed to kill them when just throwing skills at them. If the matchup is already favored due to grab mechanics and sa block to the warrior side in where Witch/wiz aswell as dk have to technicly outplay the warrior to even get a cc. That is already enough but the fact that even if we do actually get the cc we cannot 1 combo them while they possess such a big threat in form of a grab aswell as beeing very good protected due to sa-block that us not beeing able to kill them in 1 combo even tho we have a much harder time getting to that point is very bs.
Just encountered a warri again yesterday and even at 309 with human damage i wasnt able to get him below 30% of his hp before he gets up again. Im not sure how much dp the guy had but considering that he could also 1 combo me while i am at 401 is kinda bs. i got him ccd twice before he got me and its just a shame i still couldnt kill him with a full combo when he wasnt even at full hp to begin with.
This is not about me complaining that the matchup is hard. This matchup is almost impossible aswell as gauntelts wich mitigate even more damage through those modifiers.
If this would be justified throug stats there would atleast be a clear path on what to do agaist those classes. Struggle against stroker ? get more Accuracy through magic crystalls or accessories. Struggle to kill warri ? Get more ap or human damage. or go against them with specific combos that debuff evasion/dr through addons and or inbuild debuffs (those are kinda already standart anyway but it seems to do very little in some cases).
Last Edit :
Nov 26, 2021, 21:19 (UTC)
# 18
On: Nov 25, 2021, 16:38 (UTC), Written by Seeryus
well, we could ask the question - why do gauntlets and shields dont have any issues killing these other classes, if they are meant to be tanky, they should deal considerably less damage and just be bruisers/tanks.
as it is some classes are tanky but still have very decent kill potential, even with lower ap in some cases.
^^^^ doesnt make sense that we have classes that are tanky, have grabs, mobility, and high damage. Every class should have a strength and weakness. Gauntlets dont have a weakness
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Lv 64
Maleficent99
Last Edit :
Nov 27, 2021, 00:19 (UTC)
# 19
On: Nov 25, 2021, 16:38 (UTC), Written by Seeryus
well, we could ask the question - why do gauntlets and shields dont have any issues killing these other classes, if they are meant to be tanky, they should deal considerably less damage and just be bruisers/tanks.
as it is some classes are tanky but still have very decent kill potential, even with lower ap in some cases.
Because what they trade for it is not damage, but being full melee classes with small aoes, not having spammable iframes, speed of rat classes, or blocks that can tank something. That means taking every slow, dp debuff and damage that gets thrown in your direction when you fight. And besides, awa mystic does considerably less damage overall, and both succ mystic and striker have very little in terms of safe damage that can be used in group fights.
On: Nov 25, 2021, 20:10 (UTC), Written by Helegnes
How about proper full combos still not killing equal geared opponents?
Depends on what you mean by equal geared, but if you aren't comboing dp memes, you just aren't doing it properly. Get good addons, crystals, use debuffs, learn combos etc.
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Lv 62
Pukkuksong
Last Edit :
Nov 27, 2021, 00:29 (UTC)
# 20
On: Nov 25, 2021, 21:17 (UTC), Written by CatDK
This is BS.
Are you even aware, that abilities alredy have a PvP damage reduction in the first place?
You are replying to a post that literally says that. Did you even bother reading or do you find that difficult?
On: Nov 25, 2021, 21:17 (UTC), Written by CatDK
Those class modifiers (should) have only one purpose, to balance the matchups. At 100% class modifier every class already (should) do the same damage generally as the ability PvP modifiers already handle it, hence what you write is BS.
And help classes function in group fights. Also "At 100% modifier every already (should) do the same damage" makes absolutely no sense. First of all, the skills are different, so how do you compare the damage between different classes? Furthermore, the damage a class deals is a combination of class and skill modifiers. You can double the modifiers vs every other class and half the pvp modifier on every skill (so 60% reduction becomes 80% for example) and the outcome will be the same. They can choose to tweak whichever they find more convenient, e.g. if they wanted to reduce overall pvp damage of a class, it's easier to tweak the class modifiers than every single skill. You don't even know if the numbers shown here are still the same as they could've been tweaked in the background many times, nor should you care. What matters is the damage a class actually deals in the game, and by now everyone should know that DK damage is very high. If you feels yours isn't, then reading into some numbers you don't even understand isn't what you need. You need to get gear and git gud.
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Lv 62
Pukkuksong
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