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UTC 11 : 43 May 18, 2024
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#Gameplay_General
How is PA going to address the karma bomb problem?
Jan 30, 2021, 03:55 (UTC)
10479 151
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Last Edit : Feb 9, 2021, 23:42 (UTC)
# 41
On: Feb 9, 2021, 23:21 (UTC), Written by Roflwaffle

Maybe they didn't see your chat? Idk. I won't doubt you have been greifed. But I would have a hard time believing someone could take there gear off in stars end and die to you before the mobs killed them. 

Maybe they didn't.  Which is why, in that instance, I literally went right in front of them and chatted -- I know they saw the chat box.  I've got even more stories of situations like this, where I am literally minding my own business, not bothering a soul, but here comes some entitled gamer who thinks they own the rotation, hitting the mobs and literally ignoring any verbal discourse.

 

What do I do in this situation?  Call it a loss, pack up and leave the rotaiton I was peacefully grinding?  I know you're not dumb, Rofle, I remember you from the old forums - you know what kind of reaction this act of toxicity would bring.

 

I do not claim to own a rotation.  No one does -- BDO is a shared open world with resources sought after by many adventurers.  This naturally creates "competition" for said resources, and this fact cannot be denied like I see many people do, which is why DFS and holding / defending your spot is so vital.  It is common knowledge that when someone is occupying a solo grind rotation, that spot is "in a way" (notice quotations) theirs, least until someone can claim the spot from them.  Via DFS, or other, more heartless means like a guild dec.  Thing is -- there are punishments for flagging and PK-ing a non-flagged, but there is literally nothing in-game to stop someone from removing gear, going into an occupied rotation, hit mobs with intent to annoy or coerse, and purposefully die to another player -- thus, lowering that player's Karma.  Yes, it is up to us when to flag...but really....please be realistic.  What is the correct action here, in these type of situation?  Mob feed.  K.  Dec.  K.  Call a red friend.  K.  Funny how these are all "work-arounds" when people who do not flag get the protection of Karma, whether they use it how it was meant to be used (protect against unfair PK / bullying) or not (using it to Karma Bomb - purposefully annoy / harrass another player's experience with the intent of coercing them into flagging, thus, lowering their Karma).  Literally nothing in-game to stop this, aside from the Karma Bomber being shamed for it, or ruining the reputation of their guild.

Last Edit : Feb 10, 2021, 00:07 (UTC)
# 42
On: Feb 9, 2021, 23:39 (UTC), Written by PeaceInChaos

Maybe they didn't.  Which is why, in that instance, I literally went right in front of them and chatted -- I know they saw the chat box.  I've got even more stories of situations like this, where I am literally minding my own business, not bothering a soul, but here comes some entitled gamer who thinks they own the rotation, hitting the mobs and literally ignoring any verbal discourse.

 

What do I do in this situation?  Call it a loss, pack up and leave the rotaiton I was peacefully grinding?  I know you're not dumb, Rofle, I remember you from the old forums - you know what kind of reaction this act of toxicity would bring.

 

I do not claim to own a rotation.  No one does -- BDO is a shared open world with resources sought after by many adventurers.  This naturally creates "competition" for said resources, and this fact cannot be denied like I see many people do, which is why DFS and holding / defending your spot is so vital.  It is common knowledge that when someone is occupying a solo grind rotation, that spot is "in a way" (notice quotations) theirs, least until someone can claim the spot from them.  Via DFS, or other, more heartless means like a guild dec.  Thing is -- there are punishments for flagging and PK-ing a non-flagged, but there is literally nothing in-game to stop someone from removing gear, going into an occupied rotation, hit mobs with intent to annoy or coerse, and purposefully die to another player -- thus, lowering that player's Karma.  Yes, it is up to us when to flag...but really....please be realistic.  What is the correct action here, in these type of situation?  Mob feed.  K.  Dec.  K.  Call a red friend.  K.  Funny how these are all "work-arounds" when people who do not flag get the protection of Karma, whether they use it how it was meant to be used (protect against unfair PK / bullying) or not (using it to Karma Bomb - purposefully annoy / harrass another player's experience with the intent of coercing them into flagging, thus, lowering their Karma).  Literally nothing in-game to stop this, aside from the Karma Bomber being shamed for it, or ruining the reputation of their guild.

No no, your getting all bound up peace. Your commenting on stuff I never implied unless your just asking. I said I do not doubt it's happened to you. I'm just saying if someone pulls gear in SE they would be feeding themselves. And if that's the case let them, it would take a few sec for them to die. 

Last Edit : Feb 10, 2021, 00:48 (UTC)
# 43
On: Feb 10, 2021, 00:07 (UTC), Written by Roflwaffle

No no, your getting all bound up peace. Your commenting on stuff I never implied unless your just asking. I said I do not doubt it's happened to you. I'm just saying if someone pulls gear in SE they would be feeding themselves. And if that's the case let them, it would take a few sec for them to die. 

Sorry.  Forgive my passion.  But how does one tell if someone removed gear without landing a hit on them?

 

Only way I know of to tell is if a low damage ability does way more damage than expected.  Or if a low damage ability 1-shots someone.  There's no visual indicator of someone's gear.  The only way to find out if someone has removed gear is to land a hit on them.  And if that hit depletes their HP, welp congrats on being Karma Bombed.

 

Mob feed is the way, yes, I agree.  It's just pretty sad that non-flagged people get the protection of Karma, but those who mind their own business and get messed with by a toxic griefer in this way get no form of protection -- Other than taking matters into their own hands and PK-ing the toxic person....over and over...then being punished for defending themselves and standing up for themselves.

 

I already know people will disagree and call me toxic for defending myself.  I'm ready for the heartbreak, bring it on.

Last Edit : Feb 10, 2021, 01:28 (UTC)
# 44

 I don't think you can just take karma bombing away which I agree can be toxic, with out creating a more toxic problem on the other spectrum. As you know I've said before, I hope they revamp pvp and make it alot more competitive and fun. Maybe give red players more towns all over the map, more incentives to be red. Then you would have 2 factions. Make it harder to kill each other, like make dr and dp actually work.  Maybe I'm wrong. And I definitely don't have the answers. 

Last Edit : Feb 10, 2021, 04:06 (UTC)
# 45

 Here is an easy fix for these kind of problems.

Everyone knows they implemented some stuff as "catch up mechanics", new addons, oasis gear, season characters, lots of free stuff to help the new or returning players.

 What they don't know is that most of the toxicity comes from new or returning players. 

 Most of the veterans already know about the DFS etiquette or are stronger than me and you and they can easily take the spot. 

 As a veteran if someone is able to defeat me in DFS or force PK me, i will take my arse from the ground and go look for another spot to grind. 

 This is a form of respect towards players that invested time and money in order to be stronger than me. 

 

As an easy fix they should increase the AP/DP brackets for grinding zones. 

 Par example Star's End. 

You don't have at least 261 AP? Then you can't kill them. 

You don't have at least 320 DP? You get one shotted by mobs. 

 

 

 

 

Last Edit : Feb 10, 2021, 04:06 (UTC)
# 46

 Here is an easy fix for these kind of problems.

Everyone knows they implemented some stuff as "catch up mechanics", new addons, oasis gear, season characters, lots of free stuff to help the new or returning players.

 What they don't know is that most of the toxicity comes from new or returning players. 

 Most of the veterans already know about the DFS etiquette or are stronger than me and you and they can easily take the spot. 

 As a veteran if someone is able to defeat me in DFS or force PK me, i will take my arse from the ground and go look for another spot to grind. 

 This is a form of respect towards players that invested time and money in order to be stronger than me. 

 

As an easy fix they should increase the AP/DP brackets for grinding zones. 

 Par example Star's End. 

You don't have at least 261 AP? Then you can't kill them. 

You don't have at least 320 DP? You get one shotted by mobs. 

 

 

 

 

Last Edit : Feb 10, 2021, 14:18 (UTC)
# 47
On: Feb 1, 2021, 18:32 (UTC), Written by ArchaicTri

Karma bombing is a problematic area of BDO. 

 

But there is a solution!

 

I propose that CC attacks be given a damage stopping mechanic whereas a CC inflicting attack can damage an enemy player like it normally does, but cannot kill an enemy player. 

 

This would need to be a new mechanism in the game to be imposed on all of the cast. You combo a toon and bring him to low health. To finish him, you need to land a lethal hit with a skill that does not have a CC effect. 

 

So moves without a CC function can get an affix called Lethal...

 

 

This solution fixes the karma bombing problem and makes feeding a karma bomber to mobs about 100% easier. 

lol what?

 

Considering mob feeding sounds like an exploit to avoid losing karma after flagging on someone, PA should make it so if you're CC'd/have been CC'd recently by a player who flagged on you mobs CAN'T do lethal damage to you.

 

If you make the decision as a player to flag up on another player, you should suffer the consequences. Stop being freakin entitled little babies.

 

On: Feb 8, 2021, 11:08 (UTC), Written by Vicious

Not amazed to see so many players "outraged" by the entitled "high-level/geared player" that wants to keep his grinding spot. 

 

I will explain this like we are in kindergarten:

This is just an example so don't rush to be offended or take it on a personal level.

 

ME - LvL 65 - 300 AP/ 400 DP - playing for over 3 years - minding my own business on a grind spot.

YOU - LvL 61 - 245 AP/ 300 DP ( Tuvala gear ) - playing for 1-2 months - with the mindset that you can and want to grind in my spot.

 

Since YOU don't have a guild/expensive crystals YOU don't have anything to lose, so the easiest way to take over my spot is to ruin my rotation.

Loot scrolls are something in this game, people actually paid a few bucks in order to increase their trash count and make more silver. 

Now every player that plays by the DFS etiquette will say "spot taken" or agree to your DFS ( if you ask for one ), but in most of the cases we are slapped with "so what, I don't care"

When YOU force your way like that, the only options we have are to tell you nicely to leave or force PK.

Now because YOU have so much information from Youtube you already know that if I force kill you 3 more times I will go RED and I will risk 3 billions worth of crystals. 

 

So now, let me get this straight...

It's perfectly normal for YOU to come and grief/karma bomb ME because YOU want to grind there without any penalty, but if I want to keep my spot I need to force PK and risk losing billions.

 

This is a little bit sad.

Let's punish the veterans who actually worked their arses off for years in order to be able to grind in a certain spot but let's do nothing about low geared griefers/karma bombers.

 

Anyway, the only solution I found viable for now is an ALT character tagged with 20 billions worth of gear and no crystals that can one-shot any PEN Tuvala.

 

EU community was already toxic, now is just sad. If this keeps going the PvE will turn into a bloodbath between players.

I highlighted all of the parts that make you sound like a completely entitled nob.

 

Seriously? "My spot" and the "I've put my time in so I deserve..." talk is just entitled elitest bullshit. You have no spot save for maybe your residences. The game is open to anyone. The game has mechanics. If someone wants to "move in on 'your spot'" that is part of the game. Just like you making the decision to use loot scrolls you purchased AND your decision to flag on someone. 

 

Perhaps its time you drop the entitled act and realized you own nothing in this game and its a complete free for all. The only reason you feel griefed is because you've built up this elaborate and delusional sense of "ownership" of a "spot." When the reality is, you don't own jack. That's how games like this work.

 

For being a veteran, you're dreadfully ignorant of how open world PvP games work...

Last Edit : Feb 10, 2021, 14:21 (UTC)
# 48

Everyone wants to grind in peace I get it. It's normal. Players have a strong desire to grow and become stronger in this game. The problem is that we have a lot of players and the grinding spots and their rotations are just not enough for everyone. This problem can be solved by either more servers or by adding more rotations to existing grind spots. New regions with new grindspots will help as well.

Last Edit : Feb 10, 2021, 18:40 (UTC)
# 49
On: Feb 10, 2021, 01:28 (UTC), Written by Roflwaffle

 I don't think you can just take karma bombing away which I agree can be toxic, with out creating a more toxic problem on the other spectrum. As you know I've said before, I hope they revamp pvp and make it alot more competitive and fun. Maybe give red players more towns all over the map, more incentives to be red. Then you would have 2 factions. Make it harder to kill each other, like make dr and dp actually work.  Maybe I'm wrong. And I definitely don't have the answers. 

You don't have to have all the answers, just to be open to discussion (and not a prick), which you are (and you aren't).  :) I hope they can revamp / improve PvP / Open World PvP too.  I see what you mean about not taking KB away completely.  I can see when it could be useful, like if a newer player is being bullied, it offers a way for them to "fight back".  But it can be abused.  It's a double edged sword.  Really excited what they do with that 'Outlaw System' they talked about.  Long time coming.

Last Edit : Feb 10, 2021, 19:53 (UTC)
# 50
On: Feb 10, 2021, 14:04 (UTC), Written by Rhel

Perhaps its time you drop the entitled act and realized you own nothing in this game and its a complete free for all. The only reason you feel griefed is because you've built up this elaborate and delusional sense of "ownership" of a "spot." When the reality is, you don't own jack. That's how games like this work.

 

For being a veteran, you're dreadfully ignorant of how open world PvP games work...

It is true - no one literally "owns" a spot.  We play in a shared open world, teeming with resources, and in this shared world, many adventurers seek these resources.  This causes a natural "competition" for said resources.  And when someone is grinding a rotation, you best bet that person will want to hold the rotation for their own (at solo spots, obviously).

 

Healthy Open World PvP, in contention for grind spots (a type of resource), results in DFS.  We players created DFS to circumvent the need to waste time and Karma.  This is beautiful -- a community created aspect of the game, not implemented by the devs, but by we, the players.  This, IMO, is how sandboxy MMO's should work, players come up with methods using the tools given.   This happens all the time in higher-end spots, because most players are experienced and know that simply PKing someone out of a spot is usually a waste of time, for both players.  It can be a form of respect.

 

Unhealthy Open World PvP, is when someone is being toxic, like when DFS goes haywire and the loser gets tilted.  The tilted person reacts on these emotions of losing and can often Karma Bomb -- this is a point the OP tried to convey.  After losing DFS, the loser will stick around and pester the winner by way of not leaving the rotation and purposefully try to annoy the winner with the intent of coersing the winner to flag and drop their Karma.  This isn't cool and could be the result of new players not knowing any form of community created BDO etiquette at all and think that just because they play the game, that they somehow think they can walk into any occupied rotation with welcoming arms by the person already grinding it.  World of hurt for the newbie --- people don't usually (and by usually, I mean a biiig usually) want to share a solo rotation (not even sure why I gotta explain this part) and will get justifiably upset if someone starts hitting mobs in that solo grind spot rotation.  Time is money.  Not many people I can think of like to waste time or money.  And if you come into MY solo rotation that I'm occupying, you're messing with my time and you're messing with my money -- you best believe I will defend my time, my money and my spot if you intrude on me like an entitled baby who thinks every toy is theirs.  Want the spot?  Then beat me in DFS, I immediately leave when losing DFS, in fact, I just lost one to Hunter JuJu the other day.  Want the spot without DFS?  Then PK me and prepare to call your guild for a GvG.

 

Yes, no one "owns" a spot --- That does not mean you're entitled to every spot though, especially if someone is already grinding it.  If someone is already grinding in a rotation, and you knowingly and willingly start grinding in it with this mindset of "no one owns anything" -- you need to know what kind of reaction that action would bring, at least from "normal" players.  "Abnormal" players will share the rotation, and if you disagree, then that should be telling of your BDO experience.  Like, maybe you're a pure lifeskiller or something, so you don't know grinding etiquette.  Or maybe you started in seasons, IDK. 

 

Again, it's a shared open world with resources sought after by many of us.  Because of this, natural competition arises and people will stake their claim for a solo grind spot rotation, like Star's End.  This is BDO, the non-season, non-tutorial, version.  As an intruder, you need to know what reaction intruding on someone already grinding it will bring.  These are "solo", higher-end, grind spots.  Lots of silver, lots of EXP and big rare drops.  No one I can think of is willing to sacrifice EXP, silver and rare drops for a complete stranger who intrudes on a SOLO rotation who can just go to another rotation or swap servers, I think this is how it should be.

 

This is all in context of higher end spots like Star's End, Thornwood, Turo's, Sycria, though.  For the lower end spots, IDK how the new players work it, I haven't actually grinded low end spots in ages, only on seasonal, so this is in context of higher-end, non-one shot spots.

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