I will Pre-face this by saying, not a single Sage wants a return of iframe spam. We also are heavily against flavor of the month (FOTM) rerollers flocking to a class to abuse the mechanics like we're seeing now with Musa. Sage has been there, and we don't want to EVER return. However, the class was HEAVILY nerfed at a time Reworks were being underway. We've now had a 3rd time, in 9 months of existence, appear where damage on the class being displayed is incorrect and/or missing entirely. We're struggling, badly in this meta. We lost our high accuracy passive and special damage which were intially the reason we even lost iframe...but haven't had it returned. The class can't manage in any form of competitive, and Sages are dropping off the class faster then ever do to it's inability to perform.

The damage of the class is not there. It's unable to SA Trade do to the limited protection, damage and speed of the majority of the Reworked Classes. Ontop of this, most of the kit consumes stamina...Overcharge on Sage Awakening is also a hindrance, there's no reason a Sage should spend 250 stamina and a skill for 1 SA movement. This has got to change. Awakening Sage has hands down the worst movement in the game currently. Again, I can't stress enough...No class should have to spend 250 Stamina and DPS skills for a single SA Bolt.

Very fact the kit is ONLY designed to teleport and fight in melee range, is a massive issue given EVERY reworked class, including some of the newer classes, deal vastly more damage faster whilst being more protected and needing vastly slower APM/inputs. Imagine for a second, Guantlets only utility was teleporting to targets to combo whilst being weak and one of the squishiest classes in game with zero reactable iframe and the fewest protected CC's of any kit in the game. Wouldn't work would it, but somehow it's supposed to on a class with hands down, the worst and expensive movement in game currently. Most Sages believe the issue with the class, is the fact the entire kit revolves around teleporting to target, making it "artificially overpowered" since it's hard to track. However, skilled players like Heedun, Pruim and dozens of others, have said the class is currently a joke and/or struggling and has no place in this meta. They're 100% accurate. In my and other's oppinions, Sage doesn't work in competitve or against learned players that don't fall for its gimmicks. Its resource drain is abysmal and it has zero practical utility outside of frontal teleporting to targets, often unprotected. You burn out of Stam or die to chip in SA so quick it's impossible to consistently win. Outside of 1v1, those issues coupled with the fact your weaker then most now, means you often times can't even secure the kill on your CC'd target before A) Dying or B) Having your kill stolen by another class that can quickly burst down your target faster and with more damage. BDO revolves around footsies and controling Neutral, a class that's asthmatic and drains stamina, with zero burst requiring cc into combo isn't going to work in this kind of Meta...and it hasn't in any competent PVP where players don't fall for initial strike. I'm 100% confident your data will show this, what Sage mains have been saying for awhile now.

Edit: Removed comparisons of new/reworked skills to Sage's hardest hitting to save time. Go check modifiers and tag if you think the damage, stamina and utility is there. It's not.

After discussing with several dozens of members on the Sage discord over the last few months, the changes requested with a * are deemed most necessary for the classes overall survival. If we can get only those with *, we feel the class would preform much better then current state.

- *Overcharge -> Changed to a Battery System that holds 3 Charges. Charges are gained by casting Summon Skills, Bolt Off CD or Relay Off CD. Charges have 30 second store time and disappear on death. If no Charges are stored for 30 seconds, the battery will decrease 1 level. Charges can be spent in the following ways:

- *Overcharged Riftstorm (Automatic W/ Charges): Consumes 2 charges and casts 25% faster w/ 25% AOE increase and 2x additional hits per each attack.

- *Overcharged Interrogate (Quickslot Free Cast OR After Upsurge(F)/Lightening Prision(F)/Ator's Spear(LMB) Automatically if Charges Present). Consumes 1 charge and casts BSR Animation w/ BSR Damage(BSR just combines hits currently and provides casting speed and -ap. Faster animation is crucial for burst damage for non-bsr use w/ shards). Adds Bound in PVP + 2 additional Hits 50% Crit. Add 2 +hits 50% Crit to BSR version as well.

- Overcharged Surge (Automatic W/ Charges). Consumes 1 charge and Adds SA to skills

- *Overcharged Bolt (Automatic W/ Charges). Consumes 1 Charge and allows for an additional Bolt when on CD in SA. Consumes 150 Stamina.

- *Overcharged Ator's Spear (Automatic W/ Charges). Consumes 1 Charge and adds 50% more range and 25% larger AOE. Adds 2x additional hits.

- Overcharged Lightening Prison (Automatic W/ Full 3 Charges). Consumes 3 Charges, adds 50% PVP Crit and x1 hit to each attack. Can Bolt 1 time mid-cast but will not provide Charge if used during casting of LP, will also put bolt on CD.

- *Overcharged Shock Relay (Quickslot OR RMB+LMB). Instantly consumes given charge to cast a powerful beam of enegery with 25% wider AOE w/ Last Hit Upsurge IV Damage (1322% x8 50% Crit 5% Acc). Using normal attack will allow for charge to be given. However using Overcharged Relay will not provide a charge for an instant burst skill, giving Sage another option for burst damage, something the class is lacking with classes like Succ Kuno who deal vastly more damage whilst remaining even harder to track.

- *Bolt Changed to Iframe startup ending in SA on 2 second CD, 150 Stamina. Remove current overcharge bolt.

- Absolute RC (Add Quickslot from Awa) Flat 250 Stamina

- *Reset to function similar to Mobile: 20 second passive, Allows for Ator's Mark, Ator's Fist, Ator's Energy, RiftChain, Shock Relay, Riftstorm and Awa Divine to be used a second time OR pressing quickslot will provide a 400 hp heal 200 MP to self and nearby allies when used when off cd. (Multi-function. Passive is automatically activated if one of the above skills is used again within the Off Cooldown period. If not, quickslot key press will use the Heal/MP Regen simulating reversering time and not allow those skills listed to be used on cd)

Final Thoughts: Careful consideration was put in to trying to find a way to increase damage modestly, but not make overpowering. With these changes, Sage would still be a combo heavy class. However he'd have slightly more protection and damage, through charge management, to work with. Lacking multiple downsmash options in the current kit means odds of finishing the combos and surviving are slim. We don't want to be able to teleport in cast 2 skills and wipe a ball. We don't want to continue to lose kills due to some of the longest times to kill. We don't want to see large damage numbers added, but a means of rewarding players who are taking the time to learn the kit and engaging when oppurtune. Sage who's main means of combat being midrange-melee with heavy teleport to target stamina draining skills, needs a means to finish combos quickly enough to make the rest of the kit feasible in NW/Siege/Smallscale/Largescale but not overbearing in the new meta.If you have any suggestions, please share.

Edit: Also after further thought, Awa Sage may benefit from an additional Skill. Similar to Hash's and other Older classes new skills, something that adds what is missing to the kit. In Sage's case, a ranged burst skill to counter the heavy amount of mobility, stamina draining teleport ones he currently has. Instead of melee or teleport, a mid-range AOE similar in size to Ator's Mark with Full Cast Upsurge modifiers would help the kit be able to apply pressure without having to drain additional stamina. Sage doesn't need more mobility tools, but practical ranged ones to counter the heavy melee combat he currently has.

I'm not well versed enough to know about numbers and such. But I agree that I can perform better on every single class outside of sage. Which I've tested through the tagging event.

Current stage of SAGE:

Damage ? : NO. Sage never had burst damage he got only combo damage.. and comboing someone without CCing them impossible each skill does tiny miny damage.

Ranged ? : BIG NO : Sage never been ranged its semi ranged he got some ranged options but that doesnt make him ranged there 1 big aoe called Lightning Prison you will never get that skill to use compeletly since casting long with 3 stages..

Tanky ? Hell no : Bring most of the 280ap classes can one shot you while you having 370 DP like wtf?

Super armor trading? : Sorry mate his lacking protections over there.. You got only 1 Protected CC that comes with core(yeah you heard me right) And most of the kit unprotected and designed to take you the ENEMY(this is for people calling him ranged imagine you are ''squishy'' because people call you ranged but half of your kit takes you the enemy'') and one of those taking you to the enemy skill is unprotected  XD.

Ranged GRAB? : Yeah sage got a fast ranged grab, but hear me out In RANGE Sage's grab is pin point if your target slightly side of your  aim grab will not connect.. AND AND AND  even tho you grab the enemy most of the time its resisted AAAAAAND there is a bug going on for  a month when you grab your opponent it does damage but no grab. Lets not forget the longest grab cooldown 20 SECONDS XD.

Melee? : Well simply because Sage got ranged options melee skills are does garbage damage and unprotected

iFrame? : HELL NO.

Rabam skills? : Worst rabam skills in the game, all of them does shit damage( Sage is the only classs that rabam skills doesnt provide self buff this is not a joke go check every class has +15magic dp on rabams sage doesnt)

Main kit skills? : Well 90% of the main skills unprotected with a big unprotected gaps.


Right now to put in word im saying SAGE is doesnt WORK at all. Use pocket system of the Sage nope doesnt work no result.. Fish for the CC? only gonna work 1 of a 20 times of trying. Go wild with awakening skills SPAM>DASH>SPAM>DASH you will end up dying quicker than before.. 

I spent 90 days of my Sage and now i cant pvp at all.. Just because THE TAG SYSTEM,  we are afraid to provide a buff feedback that gonna make sage DECENT.. because those players called FOTM will tag till it gets nerfed.. And this is why TAG system should have a Cooldown..

Agreed, both of you make really good points. I've now just finished up tagging every reworked class except for Warrior and Striker. All of them except for Shai are superior. We're as squishy as Archer/Ranger, will less range, damage, protection and iframe....it's a joke that unskilled ppl, are holding back this class. It's shit in most mods now, not even top in PVE anymore.

This. But Shai has some utility XD And I wholeheartedly believe we have negative utility since we need babysitters if we're to have any impact at all.

I totally agree with this, you just can't compete with other es even if you have the skills to handle it, as sage needs too high a gear to be able to deal the damage that other es do with 270-280ap.
It is worth mentioning that we cannot fight with a group of people without dying from dodge damage or dying from stamina drain in 3 or 4 dodges not to mention that we use skills to be able to move.
And yet lighting surge and spear bolt require high stamina too. Spear Bolt need to have SA at least cause they knocked down in the middle of the skill.
And the rebam skills are a joke they are unprotected and cast in slow motion by the time you finish casting you are already knocked out.

Sage desperately needs buffs and adjustments. I don't have much to contribute towards Awakened Sage since I strictly play/love Succession so I'll add on to that here.

Sage has been repeatedly and repeatedly nerfed past the point of playability. The removal of his i-frame back in May was very rough, but manageable because the meta was not as destrutive and explosive. But then we saw damage nerf after damage nerf-and then for the Class Reboot on Dec. 22nd, our PvE was gutted as well. It's time to take a moment and fix this-not force it into the meta, not put it on top, not make it fotm, not make it OP-but make it both playable and enjoyable.

Reduce Prine: Rift Chain's Cool Down to 2 Seconds or remove the cool down altogether: Using our only legitmate source of movement on cool down is not teleporting, it's running in a fancy animation. Theres collision check and we can do absolutely nothing in it besides take the full force of whatever AoE is being blasted our way. It's slow, guzzles stamina, and doesn't even prove fully hidden movement-as any competent player knows to simply look at their minimap to track where the Sage is going. In this current meta of unprecedented damage, mobility, and 1-shots every other skill, using Rift Chain(our only mobility skill) is a death sentence. (And don't even get me started with how there are about 6 classes post reboot doing the exact same thing Sage was originally ousted for)

Reduce the cooldown of Spatial Collapse, remove the cooldown of Flow: Finishing Touch, and increase their damage: This will be the only skill I suggest a damage increase on. To me, this is our signature spell on Succession Sage, yet it's incredibly lack luster. The Bound CC on Spatial Collapse and Floating CC on Flow: Finishing Touch means that unless you're significantly outgearing your opponent's DP, you're gimping yourself with the CC counter and won't have the ability to follow up. Flow: Finishing Touch having a 17 second cool down is astronomically high consering that Spatial Collapse's cooldown is 11 seconds and they're meant to FLOW one from another. That would be like Awakened Dark Knight's Shattering Darkness having a 9 second cool down and then Flow: Bombardment having a 14 second cooldown, it's unthinkable right? With that skill being our ONLY ranged AoE skill and on a 17 second cooldown, we are forced to play incredibly close despite having very poor defensive stats and the afforementioned issues with Prime: Rift Chain. Reducing the cooldown of Spatial Collapse to 9 seconds and increasing it's damage will make Sage actually threatening and warrant the gaps that this skill and it's flow have.

Change the stacking Casting Speed from Prime: Overdrive to a flat %, move it to Prime: Ancient's Wisdom, and increase it from +10% Casting Speed to +20% Casting Speed: Currently Prime: Overdrive has a very interesting function of reducing the cooldown of Prime: Optimization (E buff) when we cast/stack 10 off-cooldown spells. However, we start Every. Single. Fight. at a disadvantage because we must stack Prime: Overdrive to 10 stacks to get our full 10% casting speed buff. That's simply unacceptable, what other needs to use 10 different skills to reach battle-ready status? And on top of that, if you have used Prime: Optimization and it is on cool-down, your 10 stacks (and 10% cast speed) no longer stay with you, they reset back to 1(%) to reduce the cooldown of Prime: Optimization. At this point, if I exit a max range teleport to cast any non-melee, ranged ability, the majority of classes can close the gap AND cast 1-3 abilities before the casting animation has even completed. 10% Casting Speed is not enough, even in conjunction with the passive and alchemy stone. Increasing it by an additional 10% will help the class feel significantly more fluid, functional, and user friendly while still allowing gaps(despite other classes having significantly less) to be present and exploitable.

And lastly, please return our PvE damage. I don't think this one needs very much explaining, but if it does, go and take a look at every single tier list that has been put out since the reboot. We (along with Awakened Sage) are at the absolute bottom of the barrel regardless of tierlist. PvE, PvP, largescale, smallscale, 1v1, 1vX. We're the worst at it all, at least allow us to be able to farm mobs without feeling like we are just wasting our time.

Our Class, both Succession and Awakening, can not be left in the states they are in. Even if Sage is a new class, the exceptional design of PA's Class deisgn team has caused many Adventurers to fall in love with Sage in spite of the stress the Reboot and nerfs have left us with.

I would also like to conclude with the statement that I am in no way trying to hijack your post OP, I just wanted to contribute that Succession is also in a very, very poor spot and that Sage is suffering overall. I want to see better for the Class we love, especially in a way that does not push him over the top or into being fotm again, but instead adresses the fundamental and glaring issues each spec is dealing with.

Crazy part is that the nerfs we recently got weren't even all that bad (except succ sage damage nerf at rework launch). People are just now waking up to how bad the sage kit really is.

There are alot of good points here, some of them I agree some of them I don't. 

- Stamina Drain Problem: To clarify here for the devs and people that don't play sage. 1 bolt with a space bar click into rift chain into 1 more bolt is 50% of our stamina pool at lvl 30. 1 basic rotation of just movement. 50% that is a problem. The problem with sage is not just that bolt and RC are soo stamina draining, its that alot of the other skills also force you to either use up stamina a decent chunk (just 1 w+F takes away 9% stamina) or lock your stamina regen. The combination of movement skills stamina drain and skill stamina drain is too taxing for a class that has by the numbers one of the highest incoming damage modifires in the game.

- Burst Damage Problem: Sage skill animations are way too long. While some of our damage skill numbers might look similar to others our animations take too long to full cast. (This next point is not an exageration) We have 1 quick cast protected skill that deals damage upsurge with a forward guard -60% in PvP (our strongest protected quickcast damage skill). The rest of our protected damage skills LP | Rift Storm take around 4-5 seconds to cast completely this gimps the ability of the squishy to go in do damage becuase we have to reposition half way through the skill or die. Your telling the kit to go into a fight and stand still while taking the most damage in the game, its not viable. Makes our kit really useless in terms of large scale PvP. (Core EB FG is a thing also -60% PvP damage)

- iFrame & Protections: Does sage have an Iframe yes. Does he have access to it quickly, no. Why? One of the squishest classes in the game has no iframe it can just do an action to activate our only viable iframe is in the preawaken kit RC. For us to use this iframe we can c-swap or quickslot a protection skill from the preawaken kit to then Iframe. Every other , I repeate EVERY OTHER CLASS, has 1 or multiple Iframes they can quickly call upon to full disenage or dodge incoming damage completely. Not awaken sage. The only skills we have are impailing flash, great skill lets you reposition effectively in 1vX scenarios and only 1vX scenarios, not a full iframe we still take chip damage and can be grabbed out of impailing. This skill cannot be used defensively to do a full disengage. Divine Executioner, also an SA we take chip damage throughout the skill and can also be grabbed while we are failling or charging. It has a second Iframe in the sky where no other skill can hurt you (I Image its kind of like a lahn mechanic where if it wasn't iframe at the top you would also be able to be grabbed there). This skill can be used like a guardian iframe escape, except is not an iframe and has a 2 second whind up before we are launched into the sky, while still taking damage and shot out in a direction towards safety. If this skill was a iframe on whind up it would absouletly be a great disengage weapon for sage. Our dash is a full SA and our best disengage is a full SA, this leads the to be desync grabbed or just killed repositioning way too often because of our lack of ability to absorb damage. 

- PVE is Okay: I think Sage PvE is decent, no longer a Top Tier grinder I don't agree with it being the bottom tier for PvE either. With a weapon it can move quickly between packs and deals decent damage to PvE mobs. Damage nerfs have gimped the kit though and with the rework buffs several other classes are much better, if you want sage soley for PvE you have better choices out there.

TLDR

This to me is sages biggest issues right now, the inability to absorb damage, while having a very stamina and damage taxing movement mechanic. The inability for the to go in and deal burst damage due to extremely lenghty animations. Lack of Iframe protected utilities in the awakening kit. 

Months ago the point of the sage was simple, be a glass cannon. Yes you can deal absurd damage and be able to kill without CC, that was the point. To counteract its damage, its surviabilty and ability to stay in the fight with stamina drain was really bad. Right now Sage after multiple nerfs doesn't do any damage.  They gutted the class to where it can only kill if it lands a CC and does a full extended combo casting several unprotected skills. So we are stuck in a place where we do no damage, cant survive, and don't have options for protected CC's; essentially a dead class.

You're so on point, upvoted!

PA has to do something about this class its legit a meme at this point agree on sage needing big buffs.