Introduction. ___________________________________________________________________


Since we have a new forum to post on and are now under Pearl Abyss's management It's time to start fresh. I've been playing since 2017 and have exclusively played Musa outside of a little bit of experimenting with alts within the passed few weeks. I've also been very active in trying to submit feedback for the class on the forums, in tickets, and on the feedback library. While I can't claim my opinions are objectively correct or that absolutely every Musa is of one mind with me, I can say that I've had a lot of people seem to agree with my thoughts & opinions, and only a small amount of people who have ever disagreed. Usually when I've come to a disagreement on certain points I've talked it out with them to come to a better understanding shortly after. 

Here's hoping that with new management our feedback might actually make an impact on things. 

Disclaimer: I am far from being a god at PvP and can't really weigh in on all of the intricacies of him. I am mostly a PvE player and as such all I can do is cover the surface level issues with his PvP that I know about from my limited experience. 


The State of Musa.___________________________________________________________________


This part will seem like just negativity and "whining" but I believe it's necessary to get the point across. Musa is Bad. Very Bad. In the current meta of BDO he's mostly considered an outdated joke class. His 1v1 is mediocre unless you're succession, his group play is terrible with no strengths/identity, and his End Game PvE is considered to be one of the worst in the game to the point of it being a liability to play him over other classes. He currently sits at the top 3 worst classes right next to Ranger and Tamer. All 3 of them just have so many issues and are extremely deserving of full scale reworks, though since I am a Musa player I am not qualified to discuss what should be done towards that end for them. 

To this day the only strong argument I've ever heard about a good point oF Musa is his "Rat class" capabilities. This is basically them talking about his slipperiness in PvP and how hard it is to catch him. For PvE this does nothing to help him and for PvP this only really becomes an issue in 1v1's. In group play he himself isn't a strong asset on the field so it doesn't really matter if he's particularly hard to catch when you can usually just ignore him. 

PvE Damage: Most people, both Musa and non Musa players alike, seem to agree that his damage in PvE is unbelieavably low. This much is a fact, however what exactly is causing that is in my opinion not something as simple as damage numbers. I've slowly started to realize over the last year that on his primary skills he actually has more than adequate damage. What I believe is the problem is that he can't use it enough. I can't be 100% sure of that statement but I think it makes sense. 

The reasoning is that from what can be seen of the meta classes that are considered "good" you have a proper ability rotation that is repeatable. Each class fits their best buff and debuff skills in and then dumps their best mid to high damage skills before then repeating the process from the beginning. Their cooldowns are synched up enough to where there is no down time where you don't have access to your primary combo. 

This is not the case for Musa. His ability animations are so fast, and his cooldowns are relatively long enough, to where you could use all of his primary abilities and still be left with up to 3-4 seconds before even the shortest of his cooldowns are ready again, and then because the cooldowns have no synergy the others won't even be ready by the time you use the ones that have come back. Worse yet, he has a few abilities that won't even be back up for several rotations worth of cooldowns. 

This would be understandable if all of these abilities were very high damage and deserved the cooldowns, but they aren't. None of these abilities are stronger than similar abilities of other classes with much lower overall cooldowns. Guardian's entire rotation is filled with abilities that are each individually strong than anything Musa has and they're all on much lower cooldowns as well. The longest cooldown Musa has is Crust Crusher and it's Flow Foul Play at 17 seconds. It's a frontal guard AOE with relatively limited range and a knock down on the initial ability. Guardian has an ability that is mechanically VERY similar called God incinerator that deals more damage, has a much better AOE, is super armor, has a built in -20 DP debuff, better HP recovery because of it's high number of hits, and is only an 8 second cooldown, which is the same cooldown as Musa's other basic abilities than don't even begin to stack up in terms of power. 

Normally you could try to extend everything with more abilities so that you don't have such a huge down time with no damage, howerver this is pointless on Musa as the rest of his kit actually deals no damage. While the damage of his main abilities isn't bad when compared to other classes the rest of hit kit doesn't even begin to come close to being usable. However even if they were usable then it'd still be stupid as having to use a ton of filler skills just increases work and feels bad unless there's actually a good reward for doing so. To add to this it'd also waste time on his buffs mid combo. If he had any that is, which leads me to my next point. 

PvE Buffs/Debuffs: He just doesn't have as many as he should and the ones he does have are weak. In his kit that he uses he has access to a +20% crit buff, a defense buff (the first deals no damage and the second deals bad damage), a +10% attack speed buff that people don't like using because it's attached to a bad skill, and a -15 DP debuff. That's all he has. By comparison Guardian has: A permanent +50% Crit rate passive, a permanent +10% crit damage passive, a +5% crit damage with a 10% attackspeed buff attached to it, a 20% attack speed buff which can be used as a quicker and easier alternative start to the combo, a +20 AP, a -20 DP on a large AOE, and a +9% accuracy rate. All of these are attached to high damage abilities that fit perfectly into a combo that she can rotate to not only output high DPS but also keep 100% uptime on these. 

The crit rate is especially devasting on guardian as combined with all of the innate crit chance in her abilities and a crit addon she's guaranteed 100% crit rate and then 15% (actually 16.5% is you get the final level of the passive at 63) crit damage on top of it all. Let me state that I'm not actually complaining about Guardian. I think she's fine. I'm trying to say that this is what Musa is like compared to what's meta and supposed to be the definition of strong.

Sustain: This is actually a minor issue when compared to the rest of the problems but probably something that should be mentioned as well. His sustain is just non existent in the face of the massive amount of willpower and HP he consumes. HP potions can be negated to a workable extent but without any assistance from things like addons and Elixir of the Deep Sea he can legitimately drink hundreds of WP potions per hour. For me this is no longer a problem as I went the extra mile to grind out both treasure potions but for anyone without those this is painful. Unless there's a reasonable reward for massive consumption without sustain (There isn't) then it just makes the class next to impossible to play unless you've literally maxed out your weight and have a tent. The weight being something that new players won't even want to buy unless the class is actually good in the first place. 



General PvP problems in order of importance. ___________________________________________________________________

Accuracy: This is by far the biggest problem anyone will ever say Musa has in PvP. Ever. He's been notorious for years for having the worst accuracy issues in the game. He desperately needs better accuracy modifiers across his entire kit. His damage is also known for being absolutely terrible in PvP as well and I'm fairly certain this is a large factor of it. 

Slows: Musa's entire life revolves around his dash. It's his only form of defense, engage, ect. The only other mobility tool he has (Fiery Angel) is unprotected and usually only gets used to stagger the usage of his dash so that he can conserve stamina better. Having your entire kit revolve around a Super Armor dash that's based on movement speed is stupidly bad when most classes have abilities that allow them to smash you with debuffs. Attackspeed debuffs, movement speed debuffs. A lot of classes have fairly easy to land abilities that have these on it and they stack very easily as well. With a movement speed debuff on you you're basically a sitting duck as you have no other tools to defend yourself or escape and you just get pounded by damage. Super Armor doesn't amount to much when they don't need to CC you to kill you. This is definitely a huge problem for Musa's and is one of the reasons he has problems in group PvP. 

Cooldowns: Honestly his options for CC just suck. The only reliable method of CC he has are his arrow skills or a very risky engage with Dragon Bite ,and both are very difficult and riddle with issues. The biggest issue though is the insane cooldown on his arrow skills. They're only stiffens, they don't deal damage, they're quite difficult to hit, even more difficult to time and land while your opponent is on an unprotected frame, and comboing off them is very wonky and awkward.  These cooldowns should not be as high as they are. The other big issue is that's a 2 of your 3 CC limit used up with no damage dealt, then either swapping to awakening which is further time wasted or using a knock up from preawakening and then C swapping which means you've just wasted all of your CC and still have not done good damage. This is somewhat fixed by the change that allows Fiery Angel to be used from a quick slot in preawakening but it has a weird delay and it's not very fluid in my opinion. it's just not reliable. 

Grapples: This one is probably considered a taboo topic as a grapple is a very big ability to to add one to a class who didn't have one would be a big change. The point though is that a whole lot of classes have major amounts of protections, especially a lot of melee classes who have fully protected SA abilities that they can abuse in your face. As a melee class without a grapple it's also an almost hopless matchup against anyone with a block. And it's not like you have the damage to punish these things either. This will continue to be a very big issue for Musa in the future regardless of buffs unless he's given something to counteract these things. I'm not saying he absolutely has to have a block though. However considering that he's a short ranged melee class without a grapple he should at least be compensated accordingly with something for that weakness. And his existing mobility is not the compensation. That doesn't allow you to win fights, that allows you to not lose them. That's why people refer to him as the "Rat" class that just runs away. If that's supposed to be his strength then that's very bad design that just ends up making the Musa player feel like shit because he can't win and the opposition feeling annoyed because they can't either.


Ending Suggestions.___________________________________________________________________

While he could use some minor damage buffs on a few things it is not necessary. What he needs is to have his kit put onto the drawing board, plan out proper and repeatable ability rotation that makes use of the best of his kit, and then have his cooldowns adjusted accordingly. Then once an ability rotation is planned out he should have an all new set of buffs/debuffs added in that'll syngerize and line up with said rotation. For PvP damage he definitely needs better accuracy modifiers on all of his important skills. 

Simple one here but buff his engage skills of Dragon Bite, Blind Thrust, and his arrow skills. One of the issues with him is that his only CC skills either have insane cooldowns or cost stamina while also being unprotected. I can't even begin to count the amount of times I've been CC'd out of dragon bite. Personally, I think dragon bite should either be a super armor with a lowered stamina cost or not have any stamina cost at all. Blind thrust should definitely get a frontal guard and also a lowered stamina cost as well or have it removed entirely. The arrow skills should be brought down to reasonable levels. I think 6s for stub arrow would be perfect and wouldn't cause any issues either. While this is unlikely, I'd also like to see the arrows upgraded to stuns as well. Considering the difficulty of landing them I don't think this is out of line and it'd open up a lot more options for what a Musa can actually do off of successfully landing one. 


Finally a simple change would be to remove the weird delay that prevents you from using Fiery Angel after an arrow. Being able to smoothly use this skill after landing an arrow CC would be pretty good towards helping with his bad engage, but I already see the skill as being inconsistent because the arrows are stiffens and the skill isn't fast enough. The delay just worsens that and shouldn't even exist.

This thread might not cover every last single problem and definitely doesn't even begin to cover the amount of suggestions that other Musa's might have. I do believe though that I covered a good bit and that it's a good start. Hopefully the things stated in this thread is taken into consideration and we get to see Musa changes later down the line. Have a nice day.  

Okay, I thought you were just delusional but now it's obvious you're just a troll.

"Maehwa is fine, she doesn't need a buff"

"Musa is OP, #1 skirmish class"

All the while saying that Wizard is fine because he's not good at 1v1 (even though he is). Imagine playing the best class in the game for 98% of the content and crying about people asking for buffs on classes that actually need them.

100% troll.

So in a nuttshell you ignored the entire post and replied just so you could say "Musa can dash really well so he's OP". Even claiming that I haven't played other classes when I specifically stated how I've been tagging and trying multiple characters over the passed month to get a basic idea of their strengths and how they're played. 

According to this other reply you also seem to be a Wizard main, otherwise known as literally one of the most disgusting classes in the game at the moment due to their insane PvE end game, their oppressive presence in group PvP, and their 1v1 where you just mash protected AOE damage and blow people up. I'm not trying to insult you here but it really sounds like you have no place going onto threads of other classes that you know nothing about and telling those players that they don't know what they're talking about and that their classes don't need changes. 

His "powerful" engage consists of a almost needle sized melee skill that only has like 1 frame of animation and a frontal guard for protection, and it also consumes his valuable stamina that he needs for actually important stuff. This skill is very damn hard to use consistently. 

His only other "powerful" engage are his arrow skills which are all at minimum 14 seconds of cooldown. "Powerful 0CD engages" This line right here tells me that you don't actually know anything about Musa or what you're talking about and makes me fairly certain that you're trolling or delusional. 

Playing multiple classes for a month to see what they're like at a basic level easily allows me to see how powerful they can be. If these classes are that much better than my main class when I don't even know how to properly play them yet then imagine what it'd be like if I maxed out on skillpoints and learned the in's and out's of everything they have. 

Thirdly, succession Wizard is top 3 on the PvE charts next to Succession Witch and only beaten by succession striker. The fact that you don't know this either means you're in denial about how broken the class is at the moment or you know less about your own class than what you claim that I know about mine.

1: Yeah his amazing 0CD engage. You know the 1 I-frame he has that lasts for about 0.2 seconds which is also your only engage and disengage. So hopefully it's not on CD when you need the I-frame and also hope you don't get CCd out of it because the I-frame window is so very tiny. Also, good thing the game isn't jam-packed with slows because that would be really bad for Musa/Mae also..... Oh wait, it is. Guess they better use the 1 I-frame they have that moves them 3 feet and hope they don't die.

2: So what? You don't need to play every class in the game to know how bad your own class is. I don't need to play Wizard to tell you it's very good at the absolute worst in every aspect of the game.

3: Must be hard not being the absolute best at one part of the game whilst still be better than 70% of other classes.

I get it, it must be hard playing a class that has been meta since the day it came out and has only been slightly bad for 2 weeks that one time where your flows didn't work correctly. 

TLDR: You play the best class in the game and act like it's bad whilst also crying about classes that are actually in a bad way being OP.

1) Exactly like Lovaic said, first of all our iframe part of the dash is arguable the worst iframe in the game, huge gaps, barely any usability since its linked to our mobility skill which we need to use all the time. All our other "pOwErFuL EnGaGes" (besides dbite) have no dmg and no protection or huge gaps. Our only reliable protected ccs are dbite (very narrow skill hard to hit only fg) and projection (with bon skill). The rest is all other unprotected, bad fg (like crust crusher, long animation, huge gaps) or again low dmg so u cant combo with it. 

In what world would a squishy no iframe spamming class ever be good at large scale pvp, his ability to flank is directly tied to the enemies not having eyes and killing him in his sa dash before he is even close. But lets say u get into the backline, what now? Use ur bad ccs with low aoe trying to cc maybe two or three people to than use ur low dmg which wont kill anyone in siege since they have the hp buffs. Yea that sounds like musa truly is a good in siege, must be the reason people recruit so many of them. But hey atleast every nw/siege guild wants atleast one or two to pop stuntraps so the remaining 20 musas on EU/NA can join some pvp guilds :)

2) Well thats not wrong, but it sure gives an overall insight. How can u, who obviously never played Musa, dare to even say he "doesnt understand other classes" if u are massively wrong about everything u said regarding Musa? 

"In group pvp musa is ridiculously valuable due to how easily he can engage and disengage, he is basically a succ wiz but without the CD on tp, he is the #1 skirmish class."

Lets focus on the "basically succ wiz without cd on tp" - less dmg, less range, less utility, less aoe, less slows/debuffs, less protections ok yea basically succ wiz. And how is Musa a better skirmish class than Ninja or Hash? Also less dmg, less iframes, harder to cc targets...

3) Oh so succ wizard pve is average at best huh, what is Musa pve in that case? 

You guys are literally talking to a wall there. Just do what I decided is the only way to handle Tsougkrana an that is to ignore him everything he post. There no point in even reading is post because Tsougkrana is someone who opinion is that everyone opinion that isn't is doesn't matter and that the devs should ban anyone who opinion isn't his. There literally no point in acknowledging someone like him who has such a shallow onesided mind set were only they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Tsougkrana feel free to read my post and again quote my comment with what ever gibberish you want I'm still not reading your comments and will countinue to do so forever. So literally you could insult me and give me death threats for all I know and I won't report it cause I literally won't read it thus I wouldn't know to report it. The opinion of someone so shallow is a pointless opinion which requires no comment just a simple block button which sadly this forum lacks.

Now back to the actual reason this thread exisit. Musa and what can be done to address the class's issues and make the game as a whole better.