#Warrior
#Ranger
#Sorceress
#Berserker
#Tamer
#Musa
#Maehwa
#Valkyrie
#Kunoichi
#Ninja
#Wizard
#Witch
#Dark Knight
#Striker
#Mystic
#Lahn
#Archer
#Shai
#Guardian
#Hashashin
#Nova
#Sage
#Corsair
#Drakania
Dear PA, Please hire a full time balance team...
Jun 27, 2022, 17:18 (UTC)
6423
49
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Last Edit :
Jun 28, 2022, 01:58 (UTC)
# 11
Balance don't exist, it's a Myth, a belief without any foundation, nothing tangible,
all is about Meta and Meta Shifting.
You have to take into account the spots where you grind relate to the pve. That also apply to pvp. duel, low scale, medium scale, the terrain. high scale. Every Classe are meant to be Different.
so your opinions will always be biased and totally disconnected from any tangible workaround.
The classes will always be different, its the meaning of having a class system, they will always have an advantage and a disadvantage depending on the situation.
A mobile class will necessarily have a massive advantage when the spot consists of killing monsters that can be OS.
While the heavy-slow-big damage will be mediocre Ze spot cause the time it takes to go pack to pack.
Making every class as fast that Musa is not a solution, you can increase damage as you want for slower class, it will change nothing if the grind spot that YOU want to grind spot remain mobility important. in the same way as the mobile class. will come to cry here from cryin pitifully of imbalance, injustice, unfairness because these damages are too inferior compared to the slow class when its come of a grind spot where mobility does not matter.
A choice comes with consequences, It is up to the players to make their choice and accept that its come with it. Not to the dev of minimized the impact of the choices made by the players.
Otherwise we end up with some debility, as have experienced repeatedly during a lot of metashifting. asked by the whiner community.
Even if you get a team working on approving the meta, to dedicated to put X on the advantages and disadvantages of certain class. They'll make it even more showy. Competent people always make a Meta more impactful. Let the choices be more important.
Because a competent PVP game designer, must know that a class must fit into a specific number of squares and be mediocre in everything other squares. Be Strict.
All is about Metashifting.
Based on a multitude of feedback and data-source to renew the player experience. A rollercoaster of emotion that renews the player engagement to the game. A dopamine shot.
And it's not unique to BDO. Absolutely all games as a service do the same. There will always be a meta, and the only purpose of patches/Season is to mess with it.
In short, the best thing is that they stop updating.
with that the casual player will have time to learn the meta n little and to be better. Instead of complaining and waiting for metashifting to carry thier lack of knowledge and skill.
10
602
Lv 63
Catastigma
Last Edit :
Jun 28, 2022, 02:02 (UTC)
# 12
On: Jun 27, 2022, 17:18 (UTC), Written by SoFrosty
The post was too long so I couldn't fit it all here or on reddit, the remainder of the 43,000 character post can be found in the link at the bottom of this post.
Dear Pearl Abyss, please hire a full time balance team...
There is a huge list of issues with balance both big and small across classes in PvE and PvP that haven't been addressed and seemingly won't ever be addressed. I can't stress enough how important it is to regularly update class balance and make sure every class is viable. Updating twice a year which has been the trend for the last two years is unacceptable and frankly confusing. Mind share, the court of public opinion, or reputation amongst the player base. Whatever you want to call it, is important. When new players ask veterans, "Is this game worth getting into?" it becomes extremely difficult to recommend the game to them because if they choose the wrong class the experience is miserable in many if not all aspects of the game compared to the classes that are strong. Players who play less popular classes lose faith in Pearl Abyss and the game the longer this neglect goes on. I am going to be frank here. Class balance is low hanging fruit. It's low development time to adjust balance numbers with high impact and high reward. It's easier to tweak balance in damage, class to class ratio modifiers, and protections on skills than it is to release a new region, new dungeons, or new actual content. Yet the reaction from the players is as if it is equal to new content. Balance changes breathe new life in aging or outdated classes. The impact class balance has on BDO is arguably more than I've seen in any other MMO. People grow attached to their mains. They spend all of their time perfecting how their class looks, their hotkey setup, the UI, their play style, etc. They are invested in their characters. Emotionally, financially, and their personal time is invested into their characters. There is zero reason why when you love a class you shouldn't be able to have fun for 6-18 month stretches of time because your class is bad and doesn't ever get meaningful changes. I believe it is time Pearl Abyss invested money on a full time balance team that actually cares. We should be seeing balance changes regularly. Regularly means every 2-4 weeks for classes that are weak and need to be brought up a bit as well ass classes that are too strong that need to be brought down. Even if the changes are minor. After a class has been nerfed, if that player base feels the nerfs were too harsh, they should know that balance is always being looked at and changed and they should feel confident that eventually balance will be adjusted further once PA sees how the changes affected their class. Right now it doesn't feel like that and it is incredibly frustrating. I am going to address every class in the game off the top of my head based on what I've seen myself or heard when asking players that main all of these classes. The point of this exercise it not to say that everything I put in here is perfect or what everyone wants, but it is to point out at that some lowly nerd who did a couple hours of work and asked a few people from each class what they thought of class balance, could put together a list of obvious issues or changes while getting paid nothing. There is no reason PA can't have a team that gets paid that does the exact same thing full time.
Because the list was too long to post here in the forums, you can find each class detailed on reddit at this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/vm0nco/dear_pearl_abyss_please_hire_a_full_time_balance/
You shouldve mentioned that chain crash should not use stamina, this skill is a rooting skill . Afaik no other class has stamina on a rooted in place skill, well also PA saying this bs of "All Movement skills are meant to use stamina" still no explanation why chain crash is a exception. This what makes her grind worse . Tendon not regenerating stamina made pve feel even worse.i would be more accepting of the tendon nerf IF they reverted chain crash to using WP again with their bs logic.
Edit : this is for awaken kuno but i mainly agree with everything said , but i think chain crash should be noted.
11
929
Lv 63
ArdatXLili
Last Edit :
Jun 28, 2022, 05:18 (UTC)
# 13
(Former) Shai main here; I quit in response to the Misty Haze nerf. I just wanted to say thanks for actually voicing all of this and for not leaving anyone out. Hopefully PA listens to some of it for a change!
This was deleted by the writer.
Last Edit :
Jun 28, 2022, 06:56 (UTC)
# 15
The most loved class must be the Ranger!! At least in PvP/RBF. When the oponent see a Ranger they see a free and easy kill, then the hunt starting. It dosen't matter if the Ranger is in a middle of other player, the ranger is the target for hunting, a fast cc and oneshoot dead, then escape from the other player. The balance is crap! Some classes can run around high protected and do whatever, other classes is crap compared to them. So the class balance is horibly bad in BDO, and after all year I have played the game I know they never will balance up the game. PA have even told it's to difficult to do that so they will not do that.
Last Edit :
Jun 28, 2022, 08:20 (UTC)
# 16
On: Jun 27, 2022, 20:01 (UTC), Written by Potato
Main source of income is players paying to play OP class, what balance anyone expect ?
If that was the case , wouldn't it be in PA's best interest to shuffle things up more often ?? As in making perceived balance patches evey other month so they can cash in on the so called FOTM rerollers ?
Last Edit :
Jun 28, 2022, 12:29 (UTC)
# 17
Succession maehwa is completely dead specc but PA still don't care anything about her. There has 2 choice delete her from the database and give everyone reroll stuff for everything weight,inv,outfits,horse flute, stats and others or make her decent or PLAYABLE against other classes!
Seriously had enough! Don't you guys see how bad she is in pvp!? Ofc you don't see because there has less than 10 succ maehwa who's pvping right!?
Last Edit :
Jun 29, 2022, 20:40 (UTC)
# 18
On: Jun 27, 2022, 17:18 (UTC), Written by SoFrosty
The post was too long so I couldn't fit it all here or on reddit, the remainder of the 43,000 character post can be found in the link at the bottom of this post.
Dear Pearl Abyss, please hire a full time balance team...
There is a huge list of issues with balance both big and small across classes in PvE and PvP that haven't been addressed and seemingly won't ever be addressed. I can't stress enough how important it is to regularly update class balance and make sure every class is viable. Updating twice a year which has been the trend for the last two years is unacceptable and frankly confusing. Mind share, the court of public opinion, or reputation amongst the player base. Whatever you want to call it, is important. When new players ask veterans, "Is this game worth getting into?" it becomes extremely difficult to recommend the game to them because if they choose the wrong class the experience is miserable in many if not all aspects of the game compared to the classes that are strong. Players who play less popular classes lose faith in Pearl Abyss and the game the longer this neglect goes on. I am going to be frank here. Class balance is low hanging fruit. It's low development time to adjust balance numbers with high impact and high reward. It's easier to tweak balance in damage, class to class ratio modifiers, and protections on skills than it is to release a new region, new dungeons, or new actual content. Yet the reaction from the players is as if it is equal to new content. Balance changes breathe new life in aging or outdated classes. The impact class balance has on BDO is arguably more than I've seen in any other MMO. People grow attached to their mains. They spend all of their time perfecting how their class looks, their hotkey setup, the UI, their play style, etc. They are invested in their characters. Emotionally, financially, and their personal time is invested into their characters. There is zero reason why when you love a class you shouldn't be able to have fun for 6-18 month stretches of time because your class is bad and doesn't ever get meaningful changes. I believe it is time Pearl Abyss invested money on a full time balance team that actually cares. We should be seeing balance changes regularly. Regularly means every 2-4 weeks for classes that are weak and need to be brought up a bit as well ass classes that are too strong that need to be brought down. Even if the changes are minor. After a class has been nerfed, if that player base feels the nerfs were too harsh, they should know that balance is always being looked at and changed and they should feel confident that eventually balance will be adjusted further once PA sees how the changes affected their class. Right now it doesn't feel like that and it is incredibly frustrating. I am going to address every class in the game off the top of my head based on what I've seen myself or heard when asking players that main all of these classes. The point of this exercise it not to say that everything I put in here is perfect or what everyone wants, but it is to point out at that some lowly nerd who did a couple hours of work and asked a few people from each class what they thought of class balance, could put together a list of obvious issues or changes while getting paid nothing. There is no reason PA can't have a team that gets paid that does the exact same thing full time.
Because the list was too long to post here in the forums, you can find each class detailed on reddit at this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/vm0nco/dear_pearl_abyss_please_hire_a_full_time_balance/
I agree with what you wrote about the need of regular class balance changes. This would be really nice to see. These current balance change intervals (4-6months or even more) are just sad. I hope that something will change about this, but tbh I dont think they will change too much on this since PA makes a lot of money from making new, fotm, strong classes, and with this encouraging players to keep rerolling and buy invertory, weight etc.
I also agree with what you wrote about awa Lahn. But I think the class would need a bit more about stamina than just let stamina recover again while using Deadly Dance.
Stamina should also recover while using the Taunting Death skill. The stamina consumption has been removed from the skill with thre reworks, but stamina doesnt recover while using the skill for some reason even though that the skill has very neglectable movement.
The stamina consumption 100 should be removed from Eradication. This would make the skill a more viable and appealing choice as a coreskill.
I think this 3 changes together would make a bit more room for the class in terms of stamina which the class needs right now.
I also agree that the damage nerf on Bridled was too harsh. In my opinion either the damage should be increased or put the downattack modifier to the skill, which would at least give the skill higher combo damage, which the skill would deserve.
Last Edit :
Jun 30, 2022, 00:02 (UTC)
# 19
You had some good points, but also lack the experience in the classes you are talking about, especially around nova succession.
Those are your own words:
| Succession Nova: The pets should simply not automatically CC anyone, ever, period. This class is very protected, has good damage, good defense, and really powerful protected CCs. This class doesn't need Axian or the Pawns to automatically CC people without action from the player. When using Command Opening, that stiffen is okay because you manually told the Pawns to do it. Or when using Icy Prison that float is okay because you commanded the Pawns through input to do so. But, none of the pet CCs should ever happen automatically. There may be other things that need changing, but this is the biggest frustration for most people. The iframe on Prime Star's Call being a 10 second cooldown is too long. Succession Nova PvE is just horrible. Every ability needs a bit more damage in PvE, and the pets all need some PvE crit as well. Another issue is when you receive damage buffs from Elvia Weapons or the Elvia buffs from the new Calpheon spots, her pets are unaffected. This is why her base skills need to have solid PvE damage coupled with the pets also doing good damage. This goes for all classes that rely on pet damage. |
I am sorry but where and how does succession nova "automatically CC people"?
I believe you have missed the past nova changes that nerfed her pets behaviour and do not attack on their own anymore, moreso the pets got dmg nerf and enrage is more of a hussle than a help for nova succession nowadays.
You have to use commands now in order for the pets to do anything. The statements you made are misleading and i did heard you called a man in reddit comment delusional on one of your streams, when he tried to explain to you this stuff.
This degree of ignorance over a class you never played is what rubs me the wrong way.
You did not listed many nova succession flaws either, such as:
- inability to play the game or do anything once the block is broken (you cant even move or dash away)
- Stamina consumption which you made a big deal of on other classes
- lack of accuracy
- animation cancels hurting the skills damage
- slow animations
And so on.
i fail to understand what did you mean by "good damage" because her dmg is not good at all compared to other classes, since the trade offs are way more impacting. In order to hit people with skills she needs to hit the enemy at the exact range and needs to sacrifice some dmg in order to make skills faster. Each animation cancel on succession nova skills cost her a big chunk of her damage. Nova succession has only good damage when you hit a stationary target, otherwise you either miss most of your abilities or do piss poor damage.
"Good deffense" is a joke, the only good deffense this class has is her shield. Otherwise she is a paper against 309 AP players, no matter if she goes HP and full DP. The damage to defensive scaling in this game is a complete joke and you should know it by now. The only classes that are tanky are either evasion or have absurd class ratios, which nova doesnt have.
Since i played ranger i also nitpicked this in your reddit post, it is about succession ranger:
| For PvP, this class does too much damage from range. |
You are completely ignoring the fact that most of the currently played rangers are maxed AP builds and only dedicated playerbase is playing this class.
Archer, Dark knight and even berserker does comparable amount of damage, and they are more protected than ranger succession is.
Ranger does do a lot of dmg in certain situations but most of the times it is rare. Ranger traded defensive stats over offensive, therefore the damage is high in some instance, but not always.
Ranger dmg most of the times is inprotected. Tearing arrow and penetrating wind spam is only viable when ranger is not being hit by anything. Ranger does not do big damage while moving, the blasting gust damage is low, she is a stationary glass cannon that cannot be CC'ed while dishing out damage.
The ranger mobility is also low and limited, that is why she has the dmg that is only applied in certain situations.
If you nerf her damage and buff the protections that only means she will do less damage. Protections on ranger are useless, FG cant even take a single skill and ranger dies in aoes when doing any SA rotation. How do you imagine ranger having protections when the protections themselves are nearly useless for the class? The amount of dmg we have right now in the game means you could even make all ranger skills SA she will still die to a single dracania or guardian skill, it simply DOES NOT MATTER ANYMORE.
Last Edit :
Jun 30, 2022, 10:42 (UTC)
# 20
On: Reddit, Written by sOFrOsTyyy
Succ Sorc still has inadequate mobility and had one of its primary CCs removed from the kit during reworks. Succession Sorc gaining SA on Prime Shadow Eruption was actually good for them, but they need the KD back on Flow: Dark Flame. They also need a little bit more damage in PvP. Succ Sorc PvE is in a very good place since the last set of balance changes.
#SuccSorcLobbyHere
Hey frosty, just gotta lobby about my class a bit here. Unless all of the other classes' damage is severely nerfed, succ sorc needs a major boost in Pvp Dmg, not just a little bit more. AoS is a good meter that shows that you cant do more than 50%hp dmg on a kd/ed target with a full skill rotation [which you probably wont even get a chance to do], while a good chunk of the classes have skills that do 30-50%hp dmg with a single skill [even Awa Sorc can]. Same in PvE, as I've done tests on all classes for Time-to-kill with the same gear (when copy gear event was up) and succ needs so much more time and inputs than other classes (per pack) that its nauseating - great way to break your players' wrists.
As for general changes, we need something like Kaiju's suggestions and maybe beyond, because the rework felt more like a bug-fix and an inexplicable nerf on some critical skills rather than an improvement.
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