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#Shai
Just Another Talk: Shai Nerf
Aug 15, 2022, 06:30 (UTC)
980 68
1 2 3 4 5 ... 7
Last Edit : Aug 15, 2022, 06:30 (UTC)
# 1

Since Reworks, Shais have become the weakest and most vulnerable class in PvP with both AP and DP sets. (Yes she does provide Sun Moon Stars in PvP and I get that most of you would gladly streak across the battlefield for a Shai who slaves away at pressing that one button but this is a holistic view.) They are the most difficult classes in the game to play in small-scale PvP and Arena of Solare at the date of this posting. These stats are corroborated through discussions across NA/EU regions via the class discords, and Twitch discussions where it is often said that to have a Shai on your team is to assume a loss unless they are 1 of a few named individuals. You shouldn't have to be an Armin of Shais just to PvP at a base level.

Recently, PA and the Devs have seen fit to reduce the potency of Shai because players abusing the hits per attack and mobility of the kit to grind end-game content with beginner gear. This could be resolved with mob mechanics, but PA has chosen to instead Nerf Shais PvE under the guise that she is a top performer. The truth is that she can be top 10 in Gyfins and Crypt of Resting Thoughts but is not top 3 in any spot other than Oluns, Castle Ruins, and other group spots. This is mostly due to what she provides to others.

Since PA thinks she should not be a solo grinder, they've gone forward with additional nerfs resulting in a total nerf of about 17% on Global Labs which is almost equivalent to the amount of dmg they added to her kit during rework because Shai was unable to grind in all spots other than Oluns. When the loss of Misty Haze as a 3min CD is factored in then it can undoubtedly be said that Shai will have been more capable Pre-Rework than Post-Rework, which should be grounds for a new rework that fixes the design issues without faulting the players.

Additionally. PA still refuses to give the Shai community back their Dream Donkey and Ignored a Feedback form that the NA Shai Community created to try and address PvP-related issues. That form can be found here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k0GHIPJ-ssM3m11HBQZ2Qa6m0PcSaBRxRmF0NqcVt6A/edit?usp=sharing

If the advised Global Labs changes from Aug 5th and 12th go live, and Shai loses 1/5 of her PvE dmg then no player will feel safe playing Shai as a beginner in BDO. They will be bullied mercilessly by other players and those of us with gear, similar to that shown in my most recent Shai Wick video, will see our communities slowly dwindle into nothingness and die of neglect.

PA needs to rework Shais support, Rework her PvE combat style, and rework her PvP so they can remove obstacles for design teams and resolve the class identity which prevents it from being effective in a range of content such as PvP & PvE. If a full rework is impossible then I would like to suggest that they divide the class into Awakening (DP/Eva/Support/Life Skill) and Succession (AP/DR/DPS) much as they did for Nova.

I wish the best for this game and the Devs and though the Shai Wick video paints them in a bad light I hope they know this is simply a method for delivering some perspective on what we Shais think about the class. We want the fun culture stuff like music, life skills, and donkeys, we want to have some way to defend spots or play as AP and we would like the option to forgo AP to play as a DP Support. However, when boolied to the edge we can be really destructive and that's not a good place to be. Please don't push us into the corner with all these nerfs, I'm sure if you looked at the class as a whole then you'll notice we are actually in dire need of help.

Also, I'm going to take some liberty here to discuss Donkey Krogdalo. The life skill buff applied as a spacebar skill should apply to party members regardless of whether they're out at sea on barters or in pilgrims' haven mining or south of Velia gathering wolf meat. Almost all life skill spots are made only for solo, and therefore it should apply to the entire party as long as they're on the same server. This set of gear takes the most time of all the Krogdalo sets to get. It is made wholly ineffective by the range of the buff. Going beyond that point, it honestly should be considerably more powerful for stats like movement speed, turning, etc. when used by a Shai. This should be similar to an Artina Sol and receive these stats for their mount as a Class bonus which all Shais should want to get for their Donkey frens (Perhaps even make the act of obtaining Donkey Krogdalo and V Artina Sol part of making their donkey a dream mount). This type of culture fluff is fun and helps bring in players who like to enjoy the RP side of this class such as the music composition.

Finally, music composition should allow you to play in more than just a 5man party. Many songs made by composers require 7 or more shais. If we make a platoon then let us play the songs with more instruments.

Thanks for reading my rant about BDO's most hated class (other than sorcs :p) and be sure to check out my new youtube video. ♥ Much love to everyone and no I did not leave Cho because of any drama, I left because my class is unsupported in the game and by nearly all the non-shai content creators except SoFrosty (on a good day), notRezlar aka Rezlar, Choice, and a few others. As a result, I have decided to remove myself from content where I would in the foreseeable future be regulated into a role that meant my most effective playstyle will soon be repeatedly pressing 1 button (SMS) like a trained animal.

Last Edit : Aug 15, 2022, 16:31 (UTC)
# 2

well said :)

Also, i think it’s important that people understand the reality of shai PvP and Pve counterbalance as it was, and why it was fair.

Start from the timestamp in this video link ( https://youtu.be/Jt9cvQMj-ZA?t=50) this is the reality, it's a shai and a valk at same gear, both may be classed as support. I know I out skill the other player and they probably would not disagree, but I rarely win a DFS.

The Valk at that location farms considerably faster than my shai.. This is just one example and its much worse with other classes (for shai)..

musa pvp / pve vs. shai pvp / pve at such a mid game spot?

Archer? They don’t even have to move!

wow...

and i say mid game, i have gone to level 62 there, the valk is going for 64! 

 

What is PA doing?

 

This has lead me to putting disclaimers and reality checks in such videos, because viewer are worried PA are watching such things and balancing the game (comments).

 

You understand that PA? What you are now forcing us to do? Because you don’t know your game, we have to teach you. 

Last Edit : Aug 15, 2022, 16:32 (UTC)
# 3
On: Aug 15, 2022, 16:29 (UTC), Written by Snoods

well said :)

Also, i think it’s important that people understand the reality of shai PvP and Pve counterbalance as it was, and why it was fair.

Start from the timestamp in this video link ( https://youtu.be/Jt9cvQMj-ZA?t=50) this is the reality, it's a shai and a valk at same gear, both may be classed as support. I know I out skill the other player and they probably would not disagree, but I rarely win a DFS.

The Valk at that location farms considerably faster than my shai.. This is just one example and its much worse with other classes (for shai)..

musa pvp / pve vs. shai pvp / pve at such a mid game spot?

Archer? They don’t even have to move!

wow...

and i say mid game, i have gone to level 62 there, the valk is going for 64! 

 

What is PA doing?

 

This has lead me to putting disclaimers and reality checks in such videos, because viewer are worried PA are watching such things and balancing the game (comments).

 

You understand that PA? What you are now forcing us to do? Because you don’t know your game, we have to teach you. 

When the company itself doesn't even know its own game... how bad it can get.

Last Edit : Aug 15, 2022, 21:46 (UTC)
# 4

The first BDO content creator I followed, and the Shai who sold me on end game large scale DP Shai PvP...

and now, as Im just about finishing my AP PvE set so I can grind that PvP gear efficiently.. the state of DP Shai is so bad that not even Dreadspark wants to deal with it.. AP PvP Shai remains a meme and Im getting set back 2 months in power gains and capped at PvE mediocrity *if we're lucky* by the same company that never cared about balance the entire time I geared and leveled up as one of the worst classes with worst returns in the game- and without even a succession/awakening alternative to turn to like everyone else

a sad state

Last Edit : Aug 15, 2022, 22:04 (UTC)
# 5

Why does PA think its OK to take a dump on Shai players with such large nerfs to damage when nobody is complaining about shai being "too good"?.  Is shai not allowed to be good at any PVE grind spots?

Very dissapointing.  There seems to be no reason to invest into high-grade Shai PVE weapons anymore with these devastating nerfs.

Last Edit : Aug 16, 2022, 00:50 (UTC)
# 6
On: Aug 15, 2022, 22:04 (UTC), Written by frumpylumps

Why does PA think its OK to take a dump on Shai players with such large nerfs to damage when nobody is complaining about shai being "too good"?.  Is shai not allowed to be good at any PVE grind spots?

Very dissapointing.  There seems to be no reason to invest into high-grade Shai PVE weapons anymore with these devastating nerfs.

If i had to ‘guess’. PA wants shai to be for the correct type of player as they see it. Not the Pvper- not the higher earning PvE, but the musical and social shai (nothing wrong with the social shai). This is how they market her and we have used her differently (PA said so in a video, maybe some of you remember?).

 

In their eyes, we are the ones being unfair (we are upsetting their investment and long term plans), this point of view from PA helps explain why they call shai a special class, precious and post images of what they say shai is, every event, every chance they get (reinforce their image, not ours and our community content).. we are changing her image as player, PA is not happy.

 

So rolling off the class and giving up, that is what PA wants, it’s not a mistake. They just need a good group of social based shai for in game image and marketing (events), we aren’t the shai they are looking for (but we paid all the monies, they told us they understood shai was being used differently to their plans and where listening… F-ing deceitful, no player should be okay with this)

addition;

Closet no shai equivalent example could give to other players?

 

AoS, you that like and love it; You have just invested your time and it’s off to be polished. You would have not tested it if PA said, ‘Try AoS preseason for us, then we are going to polish it and make it a standalone game’…. And what it they do that now? Wow! What’s to stop them doing that later ?

 

Well shai was told, PA: ‘we understand the playerbase are not using her as we Intended, we are listening and making changes.We liked this, we invested time and real money, this is what we though we here getting (yeah you, *nonames*, time to stand by your words of, ‘you knew what you where getting’, Cus PA have gone back on it, where are you now?)

 

Now they are reverting her to a position of social class with below average pve in most areas and average in some?

 

Like I said with the first nerfs on shai (that I wasn’t against at the time, put ponted this out), if you lot are okay with these nerfs, they will come after the other classes to and striker will be hit as well, that shai was the most public case, so best example to test the waters… it’s there, on my channel somewhere.

 

You let them get away with this BS because it shai (so did I , I was okay with the first nerfs, I was wrong), then they know they can do it with other things, they just have to pick at small part at a time because the community arnt working together (therefor none of your feedback matters, sometimes it will be inline with theirs and they will pretend to be listening)

Last Edit : Aug 16, 2022, 01:40 (UTC)
# 7
On: Aug 16, 2022, 00:18 (UTC), Written by Snoods

If i had to ‘guess’. PA wants shai to be for the correct type of player as they see it. Not the Pvper- not the higher earning PvE, but the musical and social shai (nothing wrong with the social shai). This is how they market her and we have used her differently (PA said so in a video, maybe some of you remember?).

 

In their eyes, we are the ones being unfair (we are upsetting their investment and long term plans), this point of view from PA helps explain why they call shai a special class, precious and post images of what they say shai is, every event, every chance they get (reinforce their image, not ours and our community content).. we are changing her image as player, PA is not happy.

 

So rolling off the class and giving up, that is what PA wants, it’s not a mistake. They just need a good group of social based shai for in game image and marketing (events), we aren’t the shai they are looking for (but we paid all the monies, they told us they understood shai was being used differently to their plans and where listening… F-ing deceitful, no player should be okay with this)

addition;

Closet no shai equivalent example could give to other players?

 

AoS, you that like and love it; You have just invested your time and it’s off to be polished. You would have not tested it if PA said, ‘Try AoS preseason for us, then we are going to polish it and make it a standalone game’…. And what it they do that now? Wow! What’s to stop them doing that later ?

 

Well shai was told, PA: ‘we understand the playerbase are not using her as we Intended, we are listening and making changes.We liked this, we invested time and real money, this is what we though we here getting (yeah you, *nonames*, time to stand by your words of, ‘you knew what you where getting’, Cus PA have gone back on it, where are you now?)

 

Now they are reverting her to a position of social class with below average pve in most areas and average in some?

 

Like I said with the first nerfs on shai (that I wasn’t against at the time, put ponted this out), if you lot are okay with these nerfs, they will come after the other classes to and striker will be hit as well, that shai was the most public case, so best example to test the waters… it’s there, on my channel somewhere.

 

You let them get away with this BS because it shai (so did I , I was okay with the first nerfs, I was wrong), then they know they can do it with other things, they just have to pick at small part at a time because the community arnt working together (therefor none of your feedback matters, sometimes it will be inline with theirs and they will pretend to be listening)

Unfortunately that is the reality... Wish we could do something that impacts.
Even KR Shais are very much against this nerf.

Last Edit : Aug 16, 2022, 05:18 (UTC)
# 8

They should not nerf Shai at all. If they need to resolve her kit issue then they need to rework the entire class. Sadly that is the only acceptable remedy to this situation. Week after week getting nerfed or buffed in tiny ways is tearing apart what little loyalty the core Shai players have left. If things don't start improving with how the devs approach Shai then they won't have to fix the class because they won't have any players left.

Last Edit : Aug 18, 2022, 04:02 (UTC)
# 9

I want PA to worry.. They can check this (validate i have spent this much)...

 

I did the unthinkable added total up what I have spent with PA, I’s not the biggest amount but it’s not small.. I’m an impulse buyer I get what I want when I want and worry about it later.. but this time I open up the pearl shop, coupons sitting there and though, nah... I don’t think I like PA anymore.

 

£2,873.78 spent with PA on BDO - this is important feedback Staff. because i won’t be the only one feeling like this. Yes, I’m one person, but one loyal and impulsive spender that has seen no engagement on this issue.

Not even threating to leave the game, i telling you the direction you are pushing me. To not spend anymore, it would give me no joy,because of what you are doing to the class and community of shai. i'm the one out there in your ooutfit (mainly shai) showing them off, getting them hyped and spending a lot myslef....  and you wanna impress who with these changes? 

 

(note; money spent mainly on stuff to wear and not a progression whale, im a pvp + social shai, half of what PA want for the game… and they have even put me off, cus they won’t meet us half way and listen)

I'm not some progression player. I’m not spending a packet of cash and then getting board. I dress up all my character and shai and show them off and involve the community. I’m a constant factor (BDO market positive*1 - for now), not a passing player… Don’t even know if the staff here will understand what that means, or pass this on faithfully, if they don’t, then they are failling PA , as they have fail to give PA the feedback they need.

1*)

Produce more income for PA than I solely provide to PA, throught my interaction in game and what I stimulate, and content I provide (I’m entertaining in game, be it people that love me or hate me, it give them something to do – you've seen it CMs, I know you watch in secrete :P)

 

Last Edit : Aug 18, 2022, 04:42 (UTC)
# 10

Jeeze that's a lot spent! Here I felt pain that I spent over $600 thinking "I wasted sooo much money on this class on multiple shai alts".

I know there are people who genuinely think that criticism isn't fair and it's just internet trolls complaining but honestly it's feedback. Good, old fashion feedback that might hurt because it's truthful and their co-workers won't speak up about it but it's what we have to do if we care about something. Otherwise, they'll assume we're fine with it and that Shai is perfectly balanced. The more they slap shai mains like we're worthless, the less likely we'll ever spend in the game. I'm pretty sure that besides DK, Shai is a top performer in sales. If she had underwear she'd beat DK, LOL!

If they're going to nerf damage, then at least give us LONG RANGE BOOMERANG. This mid-range thing is annoying particularly when shai can't dodge out of AOEs very well.

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