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#Shai
Just Another Talk: Shai Nerf
Aug 15, 2022, 06:30 (UTC)
4919 68
Last Edit : Aug 24, 2022, 01:18 (UTC)
# 31
On: Aug 24, 2022, 00:36 (UTC), Written by amahey

Shai rework is what brought me back to the game, made me spend money on the game because I had a character I felt good and comfortable playing.

^ THIS is exactly my same sentiments. Also i can't click outside the quote to reply so pretend this works since you can't cut and paste quotes using Tiny editor. Suggestion that isn't shai: PA use the superior ckeditor. Tiny blows but not as much as the shai nerfs :P

Last Edit : Aug 24, 2022, 01:43 (UTC)
# 32
On: Aug 15, 2022, 06:30 (UTC), Written by Dreadspark

Since Reworks, Shais have become the weakest and most vulnerable class in PvP with both AP and DP sets. (Yes she does provide Sun Moon Stars in PvP and I get that most of you would gladly streak across the battlefield for a Shai who slaves away at pressing that one button but this is a holistic view.) They are the most difficult classes in the game to play in small-scale PvP and Arena of Solare at the date of this posting. These stats are corroborated through discussions across NA/EU regions via the class discords, and Twitch discussions where it is often said that to have a Shai on your team is to assume a loss unless they are 1 of a few named individuals. You shouldn't have to be an Armin of Shais just to PvP at a base level.

Recently, PA and the Devs have seen fit to reduce the potency of Shai because players abusing the hits per attack and mobility of the kit to grind end-game content with beginner gear. This could be resolved with mob mechanics, but PA has chosen to instead Nerf Shais PvE under the guise that she is a top performer. The truth is that she can be top 10 in Gyfins and Crypt of Resting Thoughts but is not top 3 in any spot other than Oluns, Castle Ruins, and other group spots. This is mostly due to what she provides to others.

Since PA thinks she should not be a solo grinder, they've gone forward with additional nerfs resulting in a total nerf of about 17% on Global Labs which is almost equivalent to the amount of dmg they added to her kit during rework because Shai was unable to grind in all spots other than Oluns. When the loss of Misty Haze as a 3min CD is factored in then it can undoubtedly be said that Shai will have been more capable Pre-Rework than Post-Rework, which should be grounds for a new rework that fixes the design issues without faulting the players.

Additionally. PA still refuses to give the Shai community back their Dream Donkey and Ignored a Feedback form that the NA Shai Community created to try and address PvP-related issues. That form can be found here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k0GHIPJ-ssM3m11HBQZ2Qa6m0PcSaBRxRmF0NqcVt6A/edit?usp=sharing

If the advised Global Labs changes from Aug 5th and 12th go live, and Shai loses 1/5 of her PvE dmg then no player will feel safe playing Shai as a beginner in BDO. They will be bullied mercilessly by other players and those of us with gear, similar to that shown in my most recent Shai Wick video, will see our communities slowly dwindle into nothingness and die of neglect.

PA needs to rework Shais support, Rework her PvE combat style, and rework her PvP so they can remove obstacles for design teams and resolve the class identity which prevents it from being effective in a range of content such as PvP & PvE. If a full rework is impossible then I would like to suggest that they divide the class into Awakening (DP/Eva/Support/Life Skill) and Succession (AP/DR/DPS) much as they did for Nova.

I wish the best for this game and the Devs and though the Shai Wick video paints them in a bad light I hope they know this is simply a method for delivering some perspective on what we Shais think about the class. We want the fun culture stuff like music, life skills, and donkeys, we want to have some way to defend spots or play as AP and we would like the option to forgo AP to play as a DP Support. However, when boolied to the edge we can be really destructive and that's not a good place to be. Please don't push us into the corner with all these nerfs, I'm sure if you looked at the class as a whole then you'll notice we are actually in dire need of help.

Also, I'm going to take some liberty here to discuss Donkey Krogdalo. The life skill buff applied as a spacebar skill should apply to party members regardless of whether they're out at sea on barters or in pilgrims' haven mining or south of Velia gathering wolf meat. Almost all life skill spots are made only for solo, and therefore it should apply to the entire party as long as they're on the same server. This set of gear takes the most time of all the Krogdalo sets to get. It is made wholly ineffective by the range of the buff. Going beyond that point, it honestly should be considerably more powerful for stats like movement speed, turning, etc. when used by a Shai. This should be similar to an Artina Sol and receive these stats for their mount as a Class bonus which all Shais should want to get for their Donkey frens (Perhaps even make the act of obtaining Donkey Krogdalo and V Artina Sol part of making their donkey a dream mount). This type of culture fluff is fun and helps bring in players who like to enjoy the RP side of this class such as the music composition.

Finally, music composition should allow you to play in more than just a 5man party. Many songs made by composers require 7 or more shais. If we make a platoon then let us play the songs with more instruments.

Thanks for reading my rant about BDO's most hated class (other than sorcs :p) and be sure to check out my new youtube video. ♥ Much love to everyone and no I did not leave Cho because of any drama, I left because my class is unsupported in the game and by nearly all the non-shai content creators except SoFrosty (on a good day), notRezlar aka Rezlar, Choice, and a few others. As a result, I have decided to remove myself from content where I would in the foreseeable future be regulated into a role that meant my most effective playstyle will soon be repeatedly pressing 1 button (SMS) like a trained animal.

Unfortunately, unless you post this on the Korean forums, nothing is going to happen.

Last Edit : Aug 24, 2022, 19:00 (UTC)
# 33

This is one of, if not the most tone deaf rnerfs PA could've done. 

They are trying to force their reality of the perception of the class down the players throats and expects them to repent. I've always thought that Shai's damage is warranted due to the fact that she's the least mobile class in the game. Coupled with the fact that if someone role up to dfs, they have to pray to whatever god they have before they lose the rot 9/10. Shai desereves the right to have higher damage because she's gated from higher mobility zones such as Orcs or Centaurs.

And don't get me started on her lack of PVP potential. Only thing you can really do in PVP is spam buffs and play bongos. 

You're just a buff bot for the ball with the ocasional perma bongo play before you get nuked from orbit. The sheer lack of mobility ensures that if anyone sees a shai, she can't run away. Her only meaningful mobility is locked 15 second cd. Her only two other forms of mobility have a 3 second cd for protections.

I just have a feeling that things will get worse before it gets better. I just hope that PA gets their act together enough to give shai some proper love for once.....

Last Edit : Aug 24, 2022, 20:12 (UTC)
# 34
On: Aug 24, 2022, 19:00 (UTC), Written by Rukkingaround

 I've always thought that Shai's damage is warranted due to the fact that she's the least mobile class in the game. Coupled with the fact that if someone role up to dfs, they have to pray to whatever god they have before they lose the rot 9/10. Shai desereves the right to have higher damage because she's gated from higher mobility zones such as Orcs or Centaurs.

amen.

Under the more traditional design of bdo grindspots- which was damn near everything until Gyfin underground, mobility was king.

Lahn was so completely busted that nobody could level one past 58 without announcing to server chat that she is an S tier grinder.

 twice.

Meanwhile, Shai with our small aoe and bad mobility was bad everywhere. PA never saw this as an issue for "balance"

but now that the endgame spots are such that mobility is less important and sustained dps pulls ahead, "balance" must be restored. Lahn needs buffs because why shouldnt she have great mobility AND as much sustain as the lesser classes. Shai needs massive nerfs because #7 at gyfin and trolls is too damn high

I wouldnt mind the dps nerf if they also balanced classes themselves. Shai needs more skills, more mobility, more utility.

We're only half a class atm and the fact that we give buffs is not a sufficient reason for that. My witch gives attack speed, better heals, PA and is still a whole class with a real purpose.

We need at least "reboot" level attention. Fill out our skills for PvE, give us better mobility and come up with a real, modern vision for us in PvP. Solo, small group and large scale.

It may be that this nerf was needed to bring Shai in line for end game spots(although, someone has to be #1 and maybe it should be the one with few good grind spot options who cannot defend their rotation)

but

we were already among the worst at mid and early game spots, and this nerf hits all of them as well.

Balance goes both ways, not just down

Last Edit : Aug 25, 2022, 05:10 (UTC)
# 35
On: Aug 15, 2022, 06:30 (UTC), Written by Dreadspark

Since Reworks, Shais have become the weakest and most vulnerable class in PvP with both AP and DP sets. (Yes she does provide Sun Moon Stars in PvP and I get that most of you would gladly streak across the battlefield for a Shai who slaves away at pressing that one button but this is a holistic view.) They are the most difficult classes in the game to play in small-scale PvP and Arena of Solare at the date of this posting. These stats are corroborated through discussions across NA/EU regions via the class discords, and Twitch discussions where it is often said that to have a Shai on your team is to assume a loss unless they are 1 of a few named individuals. You shouldn't have to be an Armin of Shais just to PvP at a base level.

Recently, PA and the Devs have seen fit to reduce the potency of Shai because players abusing the hits per attack and mobility of the kit to grind end-game content with beginner gear. This could be resolved with mob mechanics, but PA has chosen to instead Nerf Shais PvE under the guise that she is a top performer. The truth is that she can be top 10 in Gyfins and Crypt of Resting Thoughts but is not top 3 in any spot other than Oluns, Castle Ruins, and other group spots. This is mostly due to what she provides to others.

Since PA thinks she should not be a solo grinder, they've gone forward with additional nerfs resulting in a total nerf of about 17% on Global Labs which is almost equivalent to the amount of dmg they added to her kit during rework because Shai was unable to grind in all spots other than Oluns. When the loss of Misty Haze as a 3min CD is factored in then it can undoubtedly be said that Shai will have been more capable Pre-Rework than Post-Rework, which should be grounds for a new rework that fixes the design issues without faulting the players.

Additionally. PA still refuses to give the Shai community back their Dream Donkey and Ignored a Feedback form that the NA Shai Community created to try and address PvP-related issues. That form can be found here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k0GHIPJ-ssM3m11HBQZ2Qa6m0PcSaBRxRmF0NqcVt6A/edit?usp=sharing

If the advised Global Labs changes from Aug 5th and 12th go live, and Shai loses 1/5 of her PvE dmg then no player will feel safe playing Shai as a beginner in BDO. They will be bullied mercilessly by other players and those of us with gear, similar to that shown in my most recent Shai Wick video, will see our communities slowly dwindle into nothingness and die of neglect.

PA needs to rework Shais support, Rework her PvE combat style, and rework her PvP so they can remove obstacles for design teams and resolve the class identity which prevents it from being effective in a range of content such as PvP & PvE. If a full rework is impossible then I would like to suggest that they divide the class into Awakening (DP/Eva/Support/Life Skill) and Succession (AP/DR/DPS) much as they did for Nova.

I wish the best for this game and the Devs and though the Shai Wick video paints them in a bad light I hope they know this is simply a method for delivering some perspective on what we Shais think about the class. We want the fun culture stuff like music, life skills, and donkeys, we want to have some way to defend spots or play as AP and we would like the option to forgo AP to play as a DP Support. However, when boolied to the edge we can be really destructive and that's not a good place to be. Please don't push us into the corner with all these nerfs, I'm sure if you looked at the class as a whole then you'll notice we are actually in dire need of help.

Also, I'm going to take some liberty here to discuss Donkey Krogdalo. The life skill buff applied as a spacebar skill should apply to party members regardless of whether they're out at sea on barters or in pilgrims' haven mining or south of Velia gathering wolf meat. Almost all life skill spots are made only for solo, and therefore it should apply to the entire party as long as they're on the same server. This set of gear takes the most time of all the Krogdalo sets to get. It is made wholly ineffective by the range of the buff. Going beyond that point, it honestly should be considerably more powerful for stats like movement speed, turning, etc. when used by a Shai. This should be similar to an Artina Sol and receive these stats for their mount as a Class bonus which all Shais should want to get for their Donkey frens (Perhaps even make the act of obtaining Donkey Krogdalo and V Artina Sol part of making their donkey a dream mount). This type of culture fluff is fun and helps bring in players who like to enjoy the RP side of this class such as the music composition.

Finally, music composition should allow you to play in more than just a 5man party. Many songs made by composers require 7 or more shais. If we make a platoon then let us play the songs with more instruments.

Thanks for reading my rant about BDO's most hated class (other than sorcs :p) and be sure to check out my new youtube video. ♥ Much love to everyone and no I did not leave Cho because of any drama, I left because my class is unsupported in the game and by nearly all the non-shai content creators except SoFrosty (on a good day), notRezlar aka Rezlar, Choice, and a few others. As a result, I have decided to remove myself from content where I would in the foreseeable future be regulated into a role that meant my most effective playstyle will soon be repeatedly pressing 1 button (SMS) like a trained animal.

Hi i made an post on KR forums using your text hope you dont mind.
Maybe with that PA listen to it cause on KR forums theres NONE shai related posts. 
https://www.kr.playblackdesert.com/ko-KR/Forum/ForumTopic/Detail?_topicNo=61024&_page=1

Last Edit : Aug 25, 2022, 09:39 (UTC)
# 36
On: Aug 21, 2022, 14:17 (UTC), Written by Tooshaitopost

Sharing these (Arena of solair)

That basically is all we SHOULD need to demand changes to our beloved class ...
I'm really pissed about the nerfs about a grinding spot most main shai propably never even visited once (me included).
We Main Shai get nerfed hard on basically all spots where we even before nerf often where in the least 5-10 effective class list.
Now after the nerf we are basically totally trash on all low to mid tier spots. Even on spots where we at least had some merrit like turos we got hit hard.
All just because 1 single spot were a few selected players went overboard. It shouldn't even matter considering how slowed down we are everywhere else, DFS, PvP, Low/Midgame. The Players who stood true to their class - fighting through the lower tiers to be at least a bit above average in endgame PvE now got kicked in the butt for that dedication.

I just don't get it. They shopuld fix the spot if shai excells only there too much, not ruin our class!

Last Edit : Aug 25, 2022, 22:47 (UTC)
# 37
On: Aug 25, 2022, 05:10 (UTC), Written by LumiiDLL

Hi i made an post on KR forums using your text hope you dont mind.
Maybe with that PA listen to it cause on KR forums theres NONE shai related posts. 
https://www.kr.playblackdesert.com/ko-KR/Forum/ForumTopic/Detail?_topicNo=61024&_page=1

YOU SIR ARE DOING GODS WORK. 
Im Shai main and have awa drak as my pvp tag (cause i like the class dont care how shit it is in pvp, i still have more chances with her than with shai so shush)
My main issue with shai is that PA treats the class like an abusive parent.
We get our ass whooped but we get a hug the next morning to make it feel all good knowing too well the next ass whooping will be harder and for no reason. The class is PLAYABLE at pve, i am not saying it shit, but... and this is a big BUT. PVE is all the class fckin has. 1v1 it does fck all unless your opponent is braindead or you majorly outgear them, there is no 1v1 a shai can win against anyone cause we cant SA rotate (well bongo yea ok but we got no stamina afterwards to move) We can close gaps and our dmg modifiers are too low to be able to combo ppl. Lifeskill - any other class has the same rng on it, all we got is the campfire, but not like anyone else cant just use energy pots instead...
So let the class at least have that fckin PVE. Like give thee class something instead of slapping it from every angle and then telling it to play a song instead...

Last Edit : Aug 25, 2022, 23:00 (UTC)
# 38
On: Aug 25, 2022, 05:10 (UTC), Written by LumiiDLL

Hi i made an post on KR forums using your text hope you dont mind.
Maybe with that PA listen to it cause on KR forums theres NONE shai related posts. 
https://www.kr.playblackdesert.com/ko-KR/Forum/ForumTopic/Detail?_topicNo=61024&_page=1

upvoted on kr 🇰🇷

Last Edit : Aug 26, 2022, 00:18 (UTC)
# 39
On: Aug 25, 2022, 22:47 (UTC), Written by Sleep

YOU SIR ARE DOING GODS WORK. 
Im Shai main and have awa drak as my pvp tag (cause i like the class dont care how shit it is in pvp, i still have more chances with her than with shai so shush)
My main issue with shai is that PA treats the class like an abusive parent.
We get our ass whooped but we get a hug the next morning to make it feel all good knowing too well the next ass whooping will be harder and for no reason. The class is PLAYABLE at pve, i am not saying it shit, but... and this is a big BUT. PVE is all the class fckin has. 1v1 it does fck all unless your opponent is braindead or you majorly outgear them, there is no 1v1 a shai can win against anyone cause we cant SA rotate (well bongo yea ok but we got no stamina afterwards to move) We can close gaps and our dmg modifiers are too low to be able to combo ppl. Lifeskill - any other class has the same rng on it, all we got is the campfire, but not like anyone else cant just use energy pots instead...
So let the class at least have that fckin PVE. Like give thee class something instead of slapping it from every angle and then telling it to play a song instead...

...and aint that the truth!

Seems PA are so fast to say what shai cant have, never give it what is needed, even with feedback. never picking a lane.. so we have s broken mess. 

----------

General post;

I heard someone saying they can relate to shais nerf as a none shai class.. And I guess they could a little, because their classes had poor Pve (kuno, i dont know the class well, played very little of it).. But if I remember right, that class can fight? It has something – tell me what does shai have?

This is the misunderstanding from good hearted people, and ones with voices too. They can’t see the argument we are having and they think it just a PA /balancing issues, and not a PA / Shai issue.

Last Edit : Aug 26, 2022, 05:33 (UTC)
# 40
On: Aug 25, 2022, 05:10 (UTC), Written by LumiiDLL

Hi i made an post on KR forums using your text hope you dont mind.
Maybe with that PA listen to it cause on KR forums theres NONE shai related posts. 
https://www.kr.playblackdesert.com/ko-KR/Forum/ForumTopic/Detail?_topicNo=61024&_page=1

Thank you fren, I know it is a tough translation but I appreciate all your effort to help and try to get us some changes. ♥

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