Double standarts in the essay.

First it was stated: "Grabs can be avoided." Then "Grabs should be removed, because too strong." What is the reason of whining here?

Second: By removing grab, enjoy the free domination of FG/SA non-stop comboes and also an even greater difficulty to catch other more nimble classes.

you can not grab people in iframe.

Long post with the usual rambling. 

Short answer : git gud.

Long answer : check my class, I'm playing one of those filthy grab classes. Still, I don't remember the last time I landed a direct grab on a good player (on bad players, for sure, it's easy grab then death).

Good players will try to kite my grab, keep me at a good distance, Iframe when I manage to come near, and so on. 

But above all, if I land a grab on them, it also means I landed another CC before that. Only fools can think that we simply wait to dash and grab.

Answer to your PS : thanks for proving your lack of knowledge, staying near a CCed grab class is precisely what you should not do. Good players get grabbed less often precisely because they anticipate moments like that, you can't think about "reacting" against every move, you also have to "predict".

Sorc is precisely a perfect class for grab kiting, but I have the impression that you rely too much on the reactivity of your class, and forgot the "prediction" part of the fights. 

Time to demonstrate. But good luck. 

yes you can, it happens all the time. Aside from that, there is a know case of the developer breaking iframes when they tried to fix something else. If you get slowed, your iframe stops working! And lets not forget that to time your iframe you need to know when the grab is coming, and for that u get but like a 0.2 milisecond time-frame. good luck reacting to that if you are human.

moreover, iframe isnt the only problem with grabs, not even close. As mentioned in my original posts, it overides any of the rules of combat by ignoring SA and FG, combined with so many more severely flawed mechanics that i went into detail in my OP. Eradicate grabs from BDO! Turn them into normal CC's that can be countered by SA or FG.

It doesn't matter if you use FG properly, Grab defeats FG.
It doesn't matter if you use SA, Grab defeats SA.
It doesn't matter if you use iframe, you have to time your iframe precisely and predict when the grab will be casted. Most grab skills are instantaneous (have no casting animation or have casting animations so short that it is humanly impossible to react to) so effectively dodging a grab skill ends up not being about skill but about luck. In addition to this, grab skills were silently given priority by the developer over iframe some months ago.

I have no idea what your class is, it's not showing at the time of writing. Still, you say "Still, I don't remember the last time I landed a direct grab on a good player (on bad players, for sure, it's easy grab then death)." and you're the one telling me to "git gud." ? I don't know what to tell you if you cannot weild the strongest skill in the game by far...

"Good players will try to kite my grab, keep me at a good distance, Iframe when I manage to come near, and so on. "

I already covered this in my original posts... Why do you get to have that ace under your sleeve? It's not fair, either all classes have a grab or preferably none do. read my original post where i go over your "argument."

"Answer to your PS : thanks for proving your lack of knowledge, staying near a CCed grab class is precisely what you should not do."

And once again! How convinient is it for you to be the beneficiary of that isn't it? your argument devolves into: "oh the mechanic is so unreasonably powerful that if you dont run for the hills then it's your fault..." what an incredibly stupid argument to make. THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I made this thread to expose the imbecilic logic some try to use to justify the existence of such a monstruosity as is the grab skill. This is why i really mean it when i say that the grab skill has virtually no counter and counters everything!

I do expect a great majority of people disagreeing with what I'm about to say due to there being more classes benefiting from grab skills than those suffering from a lack of having even one grab skill. Ironically, that may be an inherent part of the problem as to why next to nothing has been done for so long to such an unreasonably powerful skill such as the grab. If anything, I hope that this thread will incentivate these grab-defenders to not only downvote this post but to also postulate their counter-arguments so that I can in turn counter them to demonstrate why there is no reason why such a powerful skill such as the grab skill should exist in Black Desert the way it currently functions. So let's begin.

I have a lot of experience in pvp, not just BDO but in other games. In my previous MMO I had the highest kill-count. For Black Desert, in NA I have the highest pvp kill-count from the sum of all pvp modes bdo has to offer, and I am pretty sure this is also true for every region of BDO worldwide. Needless to say I have a lot of experience in fighting enemies of all gear, classes, and tactics. My most important suggestion I can ever give to BDO with the goal of making PVP more balanced regardless of the class one plays, is getting rid once and for all of the Grab skill.

There are far too many reasons why the grab destroys any fairness in pvp, it's hard to find where to start; and even harder to understand how such an incredibly powerful skill has existed for so long in BDO.

Let's begin with some very crude facts about the essence of BDO PVP. The goal of PVP is plain and simple, kill before you get killed. Each class is given many tools to reach this goal. Using high damage tools/skills are a good way to reach that goal, but there are also a set of defensive skills. The enemy can dodge your attacks just like you can theirs. They will obviously not just stand openly still and just take your damage face on, they have frontal guard (FG) and iframes to counter attack skills. So you brought a rock and they answered with paper, you now need to bring the scissors and that's where crowd-control (CC) skills come along. CC skills can disable your enemy from further using any defensive or offensive skill for a limited amount of time so that you can deal the necessary damage to reach the ultimate goal in PVP. But your enemy can still answer to your scissors by bringing the rock, and thats the Super Armor (SA) skills. However, there is of course a big problem in all of this. A majority of classes see this harmonious interaction of rock-paper-scissors and they bring a steamroller, in other words, the grab skills.

The grab skills are in fact in an entire league of their own, above all other skills.

It doesn't matter if you use FG properly, Grab defeats FG.
It doesn't matter if you use SA, Grab defeats SA.
It doesn't matter if you use iframe, you have to time your iframe precisely and predict when the grab will be casted. Most grab skills are instantaneous (have no casting animation or have casting animations so short that it is humanly impossible to react to) so effectively dodging a grab skill ends up not being about skill but about luck. In addition to this, grab skills were silently given priority by the developer over iframe some months ago.

Thus we have a balanced game of rock-paper-scissors all overridden by a Joker Card, the grab skill.

Effectively, grab skills are by far stronger than any Ultimate/100% BSR skill. Since no other skill can grant the beholder what is essentially a roll of the dice to see if they get an instantaneous win or not AND in such a short cooldown time to add insult to injury. The only condition for grab to work is to be within range of the grab skill and once this is true there is nothing the person that is about to be grabbed can do, because grab goes through every defense system in this game. The fight thus becomes a gamble in favor of the grab caster, a dice-roll to decide whether the grab user gets a free win every few seconds or has to keep on obeying the laws of combat until his grab cooldown is replenished and they can ignore all of these rules again.

When we think of what this is equivalent to, it is no different than giving a player a skill that does 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 points of damage to an enemy's Health. in the end the result is the same, the receiver of this skill ends up dead and there was nothing they could have done to avoid it except perhaps a purely luckily timed iframe. Their destiny was sealed once that quintillion-point damage hit, or the grab landed; the result is no different in the end since in the current state of the game a CC that lands almost always results in assured death, and the path that lead to that conclusion while it is different it is also irrelevant to the outcome. In the end, the grab goes through SA and FG just as a quintillion damage skill was cast on a player using SA or FG. Why does something so unreasonable exist in BDO? Something that has the shortest of casting animations, some are even protected, some are even ranged, some don't even need to be accurately aimed! They even have very short cooldown timers when compared to any 100%-BSR/q/e/z/ultimate buff skills; and yet grab skills outperform and are far more influential in deciding the outcome of battle than any of those so-called strongest skills/buffs; and there's more: grabs can be used in conjunction with those other advanced skills/buffs! It's madness.

All of this also leads to the following realization: Grabs are extremely low risk and generously high reward skills. GRAB SKILLS HAVE NO COUNTER AND THEY COUNTER EVERYTHING.

NO COUNTER: If a grab isn't protected by SA it has a casting animation so short that at 60 FPS their unprotected casting of the grab is something from 5-10 frames, hitting it would be pure luck and it's unreasonable to even call this unprotected. Then of course there's the SA grabs from Strikers which can grab while being in SA and then subsequently cast an AOE CC around them (usually to CC players coming to aid the grabbed player) while the striker is still holding their grab and is still protected by SA. In effect, grab skills may only have a downside in that others might come help attack the player that is doing the grabbing, but this isn't an argument since we are talking about balance here and that implies to consider scenarios where the number of friends and foes are evenly matched including gear; that's why we can't consider those uneven situations here because we are focusing on situations that should be balanced and yet they aren't due to grab skills, unlike uneven situations which aren't balanced to begin with.

COUNTERS EVERYTHING: We already covered this, all mechanisms of defense (such FG, SA, and sometimes iframe) that exist in BDO to defend against CC skills are all rendered useless and break down against grab skills. This is not balance.

unfortunately I'm tired of typing but I have not yet covered every reason why grab skills shouldn't exist in BDO.

(To be continued in Part II in this same thread)

I agree, but they won't get rid of grabs. The solution is to either give the classes without grabs a grab. (Sorta how they gave everyone a blacking ability via holding back) or give grabless classes a reprisal ability. After being grabbed, they can activate a  damage dealing reverse cc.

That way grab classes would need to think twice about the class they are grabbing. It no longer becomes the win button.