Lol you perpusefully highlighted only the part of what i said to further ur twisted narrative arguing that i contradicted myself.

You highlighted me saying: "It doesn't matter if you use iframe, you have to time your iframe precisely and predict when the grab will be casted." and then highlight me saying later "so effectively dodging a grab skill ends up not being about skill but about luck." and so you argue that I'm contradicting myself with these two statements. However, you intenionally ommit the rest of the text you don't highlight where I continue explaining what I was saying, by saying "Most grab skills are instantaneous (have no casting animation or have casting animations so short that it is humanly impossible to react to)." What a relevant part you chose to omit from my entire paragraph to make it seem like I was contradicting myself when in reality you just had conveniently ommited the part where tied it all together and solidified my case demonstrating that grabs are indeed humanly impossible to react to other than guesswork. You are going to have to come up with very solid arguments if you want to discuss against me, because those cheap out-of-context quotes don't work on me.

But I'll reiterate what I said and what anyone that is honest about PVP knows it to be a fact. The timeframe that grabs are casted is far to short to be humanly reactable to, in effect iframe can't counter it either unless you by pure luck guess the exact moment when it will be casted. A skill like this has no place in combat, in PVP. Again I would reference ShakyBay's video on my original posts, where he mentions examples of grabs that are correctly implemented in other games, which:

A) If the grab has an unreactably fast casting, then you cannot combo nor use guard to protect yourself afterwards, and results in minimal damage delivered to the person grabbed.

B) If the grab has a slow casting of say 1 full second and thus is humanly reactable to, then you can combo off it if it lands and you end up dealing more damage, but in neither case you can use your guard.

The above is what a balanced grab mechaninc looks like, and it's about time Pearl Abyss recognizes how game-breaking the way grab currently works in bdo is.

They are tho...

No, I'm not years late. It's never late for a developer to recognize their mistakes. They have been doing so for a long time and that's commendable.

Umm no there is no class on your avatar at the moment of writing. you might want to view this page on incognito so you can see what I mean. Eitherway, I'm not here to discuss your class, unless you really want to make a case that you somehow deserve the grab.

Replying to your points:

1) This still doesn't justify why one player gets to have a skill so powerful that will very likely result in victory for the grab user, and the other player doesn't. It is the nature of the weaker player to want to keep their advantage over the other at all cost, because they understand that if all of a sudden both are on equal terms and capabilities...

2) No, The casting time-frame nearly all grabs is not within the time-frame of human reaction. It is unreasonable to have something so unavoidable exist in the game. Unavoidable by means of using skills to predict it's comming, because the danger is always there with grab, becaus the only condition is to be within it's range. This is not combat, this is a free-win ticket. As mentioned in my original post, it's no diferent than granting a class a skill that does one-quintillion damage with the same casting speed as the average grab in BDO: sure, you can try to predict it, which will potenitally be casted at any time so you always need to be alert, but when it's casted it's pure luck if you time your iframe right, because no SA nor FG will save you if you dont exactly match your iframe to that 0.2 seconds of the fight when _blank_ is casted. Fill in the _blank_ with "grab" or "one-quintillion damage" skill, no difference. No place for skills so unreasonable in pvp.

3) I alredy answered this. No other mechanic in BDO allows a player to skip entirely the getting-up animation and instantly cast a skill you cannot protect from. What kind of combat design is this? It is ridiculous and laughable that a mechanic like this exists in bdo where the person that got cc'd (outplayed) instantly grabbing the person who CC'd them while the person that was cc'd is still on the floor. In other words, this mechanic is so powerful that not only there is no counter to it, but you have to abandon combat in sheer terror (according to your argument) because otherwise if it catches you it's your fault because you should have known better. NOTHING IN BDO SHOULD BE THIS POWERFUL THAT THE ONLY OPTION IS RETREAT, but yet that's what grab skills bring to bdo, skilless and undeserved victory for their users, next to no risk and very high reward. Grab skills have no place in bdo.

I didn't have to write a new paragraph to answer you but I jsut felt like it, I don't mind: look how my original argument still deconstructs your third point nicely:

How convinient is it for you to be the beneficiary of that isn't it? your argument devolves into: "oh the mechanic is so unreasonably powerful that if you dont run for the hills then it's your fault..." what an incredibly stupid argument to make. THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I made this thread to expose the imbecilic logic some try to use to justify the existence of such a monstruosity as is the grab skill. This is why i really mean it when i say that the grab skill has virtually no counter and counters everything!

Think twice? not good enough. Grab is still the best offensive skill and by far. Not humanly reactable to. nothing else in BDO comes close to the low risk and high rewards that grab skills bring. It shouldn't exists in PVP combat, it should be eradicated or in the least given to every class (i really don't like the last option, if i win in combat i want it to be from skill, not a win button).

Again, you just want to play by pure reaction, which is a nonsense. Good players predict.

Succ tamer?

Devs already gave their answer when they tweaked grabs recently. And grab is not so powerful, or else grab class would be in the top charts, always.

Reaction, prediction, kiting... Against good players, grab is a follow up, not the initiating skill.

The only good answer would be to give a grab breaker to close range and less mobile grabless classes... And tweak down some of their strength in the process. Want it? 

But well, why am I talking to someone launching a new senseless, useless and blind crusade against grab...

See you! 

Went from rbf to here saying the same thing @-@ , 3 years an then you're here great times. Comming from a sorc thats pretty tasteless.

If grabs were so OP then why can both DKs remove fg/sa and is one of the strongest classes, musa being king of SA trading an is beyond any other class for damage. Your telling us that these two classes have grabs?

Also you play sorc why are you complaining .

Check AoS you can tell that grabs arent even that strong compared to having raw damage + stupid amounts of movement.

When i use to hit you with delighted blast you always complained it was a grab xD 

Just because you got cced Claudia doesnt mean its a grab. Bdo has to low of a tickrate for how fast classes move now. Desync is going to happen because of the speed which each chunk of damage appears.

first of all we get of all the classes that are invisible 95% of the fight like sorc, Kuno, Hashashin, DK. This classes are the much bigger problem. just get gud long time experienced sorc.

Went from rbf to here saying the same thing @-@ , 3 years an then you're here great times. Comming from a sorc thats pretty tasteless.

If grabs were so OP then why can both DKs remove fg/sa and is one of the strongest classes, musa being king of SA trading an is beyond any other class for damage. Your telling us that these two classes have grabs?

Also you play sorc why are you complaining .

Check AoS you can tell that grabs arent even that strong compared to having raw damage + stupid amounts of movement.

When i use to hit you with delighted blast you always complained it was a grab xD 

Just because you got cced Claudia doesnt mean its a grab. Bdo has to low of a tickrate for how fast classes move now. Desync is going to happen because of the speed which each chunk of damage appears.

Yep, you got the general idea.

Players will nearly always focus on the strength of other classes, with a heavy bias. But in BDO, the real OP classes are the classes which get several important strengths at the same time : mobility, offence, defence, CC...

Yes, grab can be one of these strengths, but alone it won't make a class "OP". Saying the contrary is at best naive, if not deliberately fallacious.

Thanks TitanOfWar for this simple and efficient answer. 

Oh so if grab is not as concequential as you claim then why so fervently oppose giving it to every class in the least? Grabs are a tool that simplify combat far too much, as I explore in more detail in my original post on this thread, if you have a grab you do not need to know what the enemy class' openings are, your only condition to press the win button is for them to be within range of your grab. Nothing this powerful should exist in PVP combat, much less only granted to a few classes.

Lol you purposefully highlighted only the part of what i said to further ur twisted narrative arguing that i contradicted myself.