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#Sage
Lobbying for Succession Sage Rework
Oct 28, 2022, 22:22 (UTC)
2293 24
Last Edit : Dec 18, 2022, 23:54 (UTC)
# 21
On: Oct 30, 2022, 13:55 (UTC), Written by Rux

This post isn't to assist you with your problems with awakening casters, I've pointed out glaring issues with succ sage which people have yet to actually address. No one wants an ebuff node war slave as their main. Awak nova and berserker got away from this crutch mechanic but we've but dropped into it even deeper than on release and its dreadful game design. 

I'm not going to compare your class with mine either, albeit we've both seen many times in the discord people refer to Succ Sage as the shit version of wiz, and yours is the class with the greater tools at his disposal. The only benefits Sage has over wizard is his Ebuff on tap, which is disgusting, and rift chain manoeuvrability, which would have been an excellent tool in 2016 but now is both too abusable due to the high damage in the game, and too much of a liability with the high speed in the game. This is why so many original sage players wanted the mobile kit instead which didn't rely on either crutch mechanics. 

We've agreed on other topics before Whyso, like grabs being an instant win button, and extremely high damage in the game from the fastest classes, but as this is a Succession Sage post after all, feel free to downvote, as is the custom. 

Man ignore that dude all he ever does is talk about other classes being op and not needing buffs while simultaneously asking for buffs to his own class that is still by and large one of the strongest classes in the entire game and has been for a long time.

This was deleted by the writer.
Last Edit : Dec 19, 2022, 02:02 (UTC)
# 23
On: Dec 18, 2022, 23:54 (UTC), Written by Izanagi345

Man ignore that dude all he ever does is talk about other classes being op and not needing buffs while simultaneously asking for buffs to his own class that is still by and large one of the strongest classes in the entire game and has been for a long time.

Thanks for commenting - I won't pretend to understand issues awakening casters have because I've never played one, but as evidenced on here and the broader community, they do have a healthy playerbase, the kits are night and day, they have more utility, reactability, flow and survivability than succ sage, they have loot submissions, content creators, active players who actually main the class and aren't just tagged node war slaves doing no other content.

Top-geared players will loudly state how strong succ sage is, at 710gs with sky high evasion, in a largescale fight, from the back line, with ebuff and zbuff up (lmao) but they won't try to draw attention to class bugs or fixes, or the fact the community is dead, that players can't grow on the class, or defend a spot, or experience high level zones, because they either do terribly or simply die there. 

If someone picked the class up as a new player, they wouldn't be experiencing what bdo has to offer. That's the plainest way to put it. They wouldn't be able to. He's designed to cope on endgame gear in largescale modes. And people aren't grinding out their endgame gear on succ sage (bless you if you are), so they're doing it on someone else and tagging it across to him if they're feeling fruity. 

They piled all the slowness, lack of sustain, lack of cancels, lack of utility, lack of depth, lack of flow and the most niche plays in the most niche situations, piled it all on one class and this is the result. No one wants to go anywhere near it. 

Job well done PA, I suppose? 

26 122
Last Edit : Jan 6, 2023, 15:51 (UTC)
# 24
On: Oct 28, 2022, 22:22 (UTC), Written by Rux

Lobbying for Succ Sage Rework

I'll start first by asking for PA to please just port over the Succession Sage Mobile kit seen here: https://youtu.be/j4K2HrGJnR8

Please read the below Fixes, Nerfs and Buffs to the P.C kit, to address bugs which have persisted for over a year, and provide a more fleshed out time caster class that ISN'T pigeonholed into largescale-only content at gear cap. 

You delivered a buggy, unfinished class with

- no options

- no cancels

- no combos

- no chase

- no escape

- no cancels

- no speed

- no slows

- no heals

- no other utility

- no sustain

- squishiest dp

Specifically made to do well in largescale and categorically can't function in other forms of content.

Lo and behold literally no one plays him, except maybe two to three top geared players using the tag function, because Succ sage is hard blocked from about 85% of the games content, can't make silver past Elvia orcs, struggle at low end spots due to stamina and can't hold a spot anywhere. 

Please see the following list to rebalanced this unbalanced class who's hemorrhaged players since launch.

Bug FIX

Primary movement skill - Because of the 30 foot long hitbox during riftchain which registers back attacks, crits etc along its entire length for the entire duration no matter where abouts you are in the animation, succ sage takes massive amounts of damage from all sources during primary movement and spends huge stamina for the privilege. 

This is his only movement at the moment like dragging a vulnerable tail behind him through war zones, attacks, enemy aoe circles etc. This punishes Succ Sage constantly and the likelihood is you'd have taken less damage if you'd just sheathed your weapon and stood still. This is the definition of a skill that is NOT fit for purpose. 

Solution: a fast and easy way to fix this is to make all uses of Riftchain partial Iframe at the beginning, transitioning into Super Armour afterwards. So the first third of the skills travel distance is iframe and the latter two thirds SA. 

This allows the player to choose between travelling a short distance to reposition safely and dodge on reaction, or travelling further in SA. This is also a way to address largescale abuse. 

Nerf

First, please revert the changes to Reset and Overdrive. We have no business using our powerful class buff so often, it was bad enough using it twice in a row with a ten minute wait. Now, its significantly worse, will agitate many and encourages questionable gameplay, like spamming auto attacks at a wall until Reset is off cooldown to fuel the next ebuff. 

Solution: Make our E-Buff a NORMAL E-Buff that can't be Reset and used back to back anymore.

Instead, allow a Prime: version of Reset to kick in automatically at maximum Overdrive Stacks, to allow sage to use Ators Fist, Spatial Fissure, Illusion Expansion, Realm of Anguish, Prime:Rift Storm, Ators Energy, Gravity Rift, (without CC effects) once more during their cooldown, as long as stacks are at maximum. This prevents Ebuff abuse in largescale, and provides more rewarding, engaging gameplay.

With the nerf to ebuff spam, the rest of the issues are as follows:

PROVIDE SOME BASIC UTILITY YOU GIVE EVERYONE ELSE

Attack cancels - keeping him slow and steady as a caster is in-theme as he is impactful, but every other class has access to some kind of cancel which helps their dps, survival and comboability. Being able to at least change his mind would keep him slow but allow him some level of control over his OWN abilities during an encounter.

Solution: A cancel skill bound to spacebar should be available for at least his slowest spells, with some melee range damage applied to aid his dps for endgame grinding. Or, as Succ Sage is a time caster, this cancel could reset him to a previous moment in time, cancel his skill and provide a small undo wounds heal on top for 200 hp. 

Secondary movement skills - succ sage has no other form of movement outside of rift chain, which gets him killed, eats up all nearby damage thanks to a bugged hitbox, destroys his stamina, is easily tracked and leaves him disadvantaged in almost all other matchups. 

Solution: please incorporate a short distance dash or blink step to provide a choice between moving with RC over a greater distance (and eating damage across the whole rift trail), or repositioning over a much shorter distance with an alternate form of movement. 


Attack Slows - HE IS A TIME AND SPACE THEMED CASTER ANS HE'S THE ONLY CLASS IN THE GAME WITHOUT ATTACK AND MOVEMENT SLOWS. 

Solution: Please add - 30% Attack and - 30% movement speed for 10 seconds debuff to Realm of Anguish in keeping with other classes slows, so we can use it to mitigate damage in PvE and for self defence in PvP. 

But as it stands, he's fundamentally lacking far too much in important areas, and over achieving in one area. I can't think of a better example of being unbalanced as a class than having lopsidedly over-the-top performance in limited content confined to the walls of RBF with no self sufficiency, journeying or growth, and being garbage everywhere else.

It's lopsided and provides an unpleasant experience.

Dude, the same can be said for shai.

PA made classes for nodewar themes. Sage and shai (and archer) have specific roles to play in large pvp theatre. 

This is just the reality we deal with. 

The only thing we can ask them to do is make only one of the kits reflect the play style of PVP large scale, and the other be more flexible for other types of gameplay. 

IMO, the succession model sould always be the one that reflects this PVP large scale function. 

This was deleted by the writer.
Last Edit : Jan 6, 2023, 17:47 (UTC)
# 26
On: Jan 6, 2023, 15:51 (UTC), Written by ArchaicTriad

Dude, the same can be said for shai.

PA made classes for nodewar themes. Sage and shai (and archer) have specific roles to play in large pvp theatre. 

This is just the reality we deal with. 

The only thing we can ask them to do is make only one of the kits reflect the play style of PVP large scale, and the other be more flexible for other types of gameplay. 

IMO, the succession model sould always be the one that reflects this PVP large scale function. 

Same can be said for Shai?

Is Shai an unfinished, buggy class with

- no options

- no cancels

- no combos

- no chase

- no escape

- no cancels

- no speed

- no slows

- no heals

- no other utility

- no sustain

- squishiest dp

Because that isn't design, that's lacking.

And just so I'm understanding you correctly, you think the spec that classes are advertised with, the spec that pulls players to a class in the first place, the spec that they begin the game on and level with to 56 and then 60 to get all Primes, is the spec that's relegated to RBF or uncapped node wars?

Sorry, but isn't that counterproductive? Think about it, you invite someone onto a class initially, with the promise of XYZ, but "you can't defend a spot, you can't earn silver and you're only good here and here, sorry".

Makes no sense.

26 122
Last Edit : Jan 6, 2023, 22:28 (UTC)
# 27

Todays global labs has succ sage buffs. Hopefully these are good (people seem to think so) I don't play it myself, but in case you haven't seen them here is the link:

Global Lab Updates - 6th January 2023 - Black Desert Foundry

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