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#Gameplay_General
How to handle DFS
Mar 22, 2021, 20:45 (UTC)
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Last Edit : Mar 23, 2021, 18:20 (UTC)
# 11
On: Mar 22, 2021, 20:45 (UTC), Written by Retteo

This weekend was a great test.  I was able to obtain lots of real data to help illuminate what the game is actually like.  Especially for new players.

While many that requested a DFS simply left without incident, here is the problem and the current Solution.

 

Every single player that tried to overtake the spot attempted to mob feed.  100% of them (As always).

 

100% of the incidents where a player trying to OVERTAKE an already occupied area.

(None of the omg someone is Karma Bomb me nonsense)

 

Is is important for the community to understand how to deal with these bullies.  At NO POINT during any of these encounters did I yield the rotation to another person.  Every single of these players ended up leaving either red or fed up with the competion.

 

PRO TIP:

You should be prepared for this type of encounter.  Have alts/tagged characters ready.  Bring "special equipment" if needed.

 

Step 1:

BLOCK these players immediately.  You need a permanant record of their behavior.  This way when you encounter them later on they are properly identified.  Do not speak to them, do not acknowledge them, once they have initated trying to PK or Feed.

 

Step 2:

Prepare for the long haul and stand your ground.  Bullies look for sheep and small fish.  You need to set a good example and not allow them to push you around.  Remember, we are NOT talking about actual duels or proper behavior.  This is stricly about players trying to force themselves upon you.

 

Step 3:

No mercy.  If you ever encounter these same players later on, months later, years later, it makes no difference.  You need to make an impact.  These people need to be taught a lesson.  You grind in their face if you ever come across them.  You will KNOW it's one of these people by their inability to speak.  That is the real reason behind the block.  It's a permanent identifier.

 

Success:

NONE of the people that tried to take the spot the entire weekend where successful.  I put the bullies in their place and maintained the rotations.  We need more people to push back and say NO TO BULLIES.

 

Only you can prevent forest fires, and online bullying.

#MAKE_A_STAND

 

This is why I love the direction Pearl abyss is going with grind spots, making them access restricted. Karma bombing will soon come with a price, and grinding on Arsha will actually incentivize grouping if only one group memeber has to carry the access token to get the full benefits of the grind spot.

 

Will destroy this entitled resource hog mentality.

Last Edit : Mar 23, 2021, 19:11 (UTC)
# 12
On: Mar 23, 2021, 18:08 (UTC), Written by Helegnes

The points have been made in your other spam topics ^^.
In any case, you stand here portraying yourself as 'taking a stand for the little guys', yet in practice you've provided a walkthrough on how to become the most unpopular player in your server.

 

At the end of the day, we can agree to disagree, but you should not actively spam the forums promoting a sub-culture that is generally considered toxic to the game community (atleast in its current form on EU NA). And, the fact that you shy away from displaying your name means that you do not appreciate the general masses' opinion at all; you'd rather speak from behind the safety of an alias.

 

But, if you insist on points refuted;

'lots of real data' refers to what exactly? You have provided no documentation on these tests, nor proof of their actual occurence, let alone the data you speak of.

 

You have not included any detailed description of any methodology; did you take over an arbitrary grind spot, and wait for someone to come by and request a duel, only to grief them? Did you use multiple accounts/participants? Which grind spots? In what way did people approach you, in what number?

 

You continue on to list tips for people in these situations, you claim that they must 'stand their ground'. This essentially implies leave whatever guild they support to avoid decs, and pressing the respawn button every 4 seconds? I find these tips rather vague and inconclusive. What do I do if I have expensive crystals? What if these people start hunting me withholding me from ever grinding on specific servers?

 

TL;DR, your post is full of holes, and your mentality is detrimental to the established community.

I won't deny this topic being spammed across the forums right now and that more than half of the threads about this topic have been created by the OP of this thread here. But these pointless singling people out just to shit post them comments need to stop. It most likely the reason why the OP feels the need to make this thread again and again for 3 or 4 time now (Idk I lost count). Cause these "X user is bad and should be ignored" post have been equal spammed in these threads. An I don't  understand how you people are going to call someone else toxic but you people fail to see you own toxicity with these meaningly "X user is bad an should be ignored." posts.

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This was deleted by the writer.
Last Edit : Mar 23, 2021, 19:37 (UTC)
# 14
On: Mar 23, 2021, 17:09 (UTC), Written by Retteo

That's a decent setting, but keep in mind not everyone has the ability to deal with mob feeding.  Especially newer players that may be testing end locations with only sufficient gear.

 

The poorly geared players are actually engaging in quite a lot more challenge and risk, but they are also vulnerable to people taking advantage of them.

 

A lot of the player base honestly can't deal with mob feeding that easily.  It's a serious issue that needs to be looked into.  The tears won't fix your crystals either.  The game also allows many CC's including grabs to do virtually no damage even to a 0DP player.  A 300AP player can abuse the system by literally CCing a 0DP character and virtually NEVER PK them.

 

Players can also exploit DP builds to the same effect.

Who uses crystals in high-end pvpve grind areas? If someone tries to feed me to mobs, I'll just drop my gear. Then I'll res until they get bored of me not giving a fuck.

Last Edit : Mar 23, 2021, 22:13 (UTC)
# 15
On: Mar 23, 2021, 19:37 (UTC), Written by Toriia

Who uses crystals in high-end pvpve grind areas? If someone tries to feed me to mobs, I'll just drop my gear. Then I'll res until they get bored of me not giving a fuck.

That's not really an accurate portrayal of how things work.  First if you "drop your gear" you will need to deal with the reality that many CC's will barely do any dmg to a 0DP player.  The system is increadibly broken and exploitable.  The community and Pearl Abyss should be aware of this.

 

Secondly, you assume a player would have backup gear SUFFICIENT enough to grind end game locations.  This is very often not the case.

 

The player may stop trying to PK if they detect your damage is inferior and instead just use your damage to help boost theirs and get all the kills.

 

It's a lot more complicated than people like to presume.  Also keep in mind your competing again another player that will adapt their strategy to what you're doing.

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Last Edit : Mar 23, 2021, 22:27 (UTC)
# 16
On: Mar 23, 2021, 18:08 (UTC), Written by Helegnes

The points have been made in your other spam topics ^^.
In any case, you stand here portraying yourself as 'taking a stand for the little guys', yet in practice you've provided a walkthrough on how to become the most unpopular player in your server.

 

At the end of the day, we can agree to disagree, but you should not actively spam the forums promoting a sub-culture that is generally considered toxic to the game community (atleast in its current form on EU NA). And, the fact that you shy away from displaying your name means that you do not appreciate the general masses' opinion at all; you'd rather speak from behind the safety of an alias.

 

But, if you insist on points refuted;

'lots of real data' refers to what exactly? You have provided no documentation on these tests, nor proof of their actual occurence, let alone the data you speak of.

 

You have not included any detailed description of any methodology; did you take over an arbitrary grind spot, and wait for someone to come by and request a duel, only to grief them? Did you use multiple accounts/participants? Which grind spots? In what way did people approach you, in what number?

 

You continue on to list tips for people in these situations, you claim that they must 'stand their ground'. This essentially implies leave whatever guild they support to avoid decs, and pressing the respawn button every 4 seconds? I find these tips rather vague and inconclusive. What do I do if I have expensive crystals? What if these people start hunting me withholding me from ever grinding on specific servers?

 

TL;DR, your post is full of holes, and your mentality is detrimental to the established community.

I love the fact that you think it's highly toxic and undesirable.  What you don't understand though is that is how the game is designed.  This isn't about ME.  The GAME is designed to be toxic, competitive, abusive, full of bullying and griefing.

 

Did you take a moment to think about what happens when you pit people against each for limited resources?

 

And what exactly besides absolutely nothing here is against the game rules?  ;)

The point of the game is to dominate your opponents.  To over power them (*cough* cash shopin a competitive PVP environment.

 

ALWAYS remember I didn't create this system PEARL ABYSS did.

I'm not a big fan of it.   However, given the situation this is one way to deal with it.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

As per the evidence, I am the authority on it.  That is because I care nothing about the emotional aspect and ONLY REALITY and facts.  That is why the text is written in specific ways with disclaimers.  I specifically pointed out there where plenty of people that asked DFS and when I respectfully refused they left without incident.  I didn't try to cover that up or lie about it.  I also pointed out that I didn't just move into anyone grind spot.

 

These occurences mainly happened at Stars End, which naturally is more prone to this type of behavior.  However, it has also occured in the new Hadum areas although far less frequently.  It's happened on virtually every single rotation at Stars End.  It's MORE prone to happen in roughly 2-3 more desired rotations, but when the area gets full it may happen to any rotation.

 

As far as dropping guild etc.  Absolutely I would advocate players doing this.  I'm well aware of the importance of guild cohension and the value of it.  Some guilds will use limited protections or have less issues.

 

However, what should NOT OCCUR is players abusing the broken declare system to mob feed or remove players just because they belong to a clan.  A clan war should never occur without consent from BOTH sides.  That's basic 101 design.

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Last Edit : Mar 23, 2021, 22:45 (UTC)
# 17
On: Mar 23, 2021, 22:16 (UTC), Written by Retteo

However, what should NOT OCCUR is players abusing the broken declare system to mob feed or remove players just because they belong to a clan.  A clan war should never occur without consent from BOTH sides.  That's basic 101 design.

That's not basic 101 design, that's you wanting a different game. These conflicts are what you accepted by coming on BDO, to begin with, the idea of clan doesnt have any meaning for you but yet, that's precisely why it's important to have one, and one who have some more pvp oriented players. 

 

For the rest of your post... That's your usual self. Calling reality and facts with long posts and no data. There's no discussion possible, you're making up things as you see fit (which explains the lack of consistency). 

Last Edit : Mar 23, 2021, 22:56 (UTC)
# 18
On: Mar 23, 2021, 22:45 (UTC), Written by Sadalsuud

That's not basic 101 design, that's you wanting a different game. These conflicts are what you accepted by coming on BDO, to begin with, the idea of clan doesnt have any meaning for you but yet, that's precisely why it's important to have one, and one who have some more pvp oriented players. 

 

For the rest of your post... That's your usual self. Calling reality and facts with long posts and no data. There's no discussion possible, you're making up things as you see fit (which explains the lack of consistency). 

REALITY AND FACT:

"I'm well aware of the importance of guild cohension and the value of it."

 

VS your triggered response

"the idea of clan doesnt have any meaning for you"

 

Game Design 101:

For Pearl Abyss and anyone else that doesn't know the basics -

The ability to declare a one sided war on another clan gives them the ability to circumvent the entire Karma protection system.  It can lead to stronger clans abusing others and potentially a few stronger clans dominating over and putting a choke hold on your entire customer base.  It's irresponsible and poor design and should NEVER be implemented in any game.  The proper war declaration was already concieved correctly in Lineage II.  BOTH clans needs to mutually accept a clan war.

 

15 919
Last Edit : Mar 23, 2021, 23:07 (UTC)
# 19
On: Mar 23, 2021, 22:55 (UTC), Written by Retteo

REALITY AND FACT:

"I'm well aware of the importance of guild cohension and the value of it."

 

VS your triggered response

"the idea of clan doesnt have any meaning for you"

 

Game Design 101:

For Pearl Abyss and anyone else that doesn't know the basics -

The ability to declare a one sided war on another clan gives them the ability to circumvent the entire Karma protection system.  It can lead to stronger clans abusing others and potentially a few stronger clans dominating over and putting a choke hold on your entire customer base.  It's irresponsible and poor design and should NEVER be implemented in any game.  The proper war declaration was already concieved correctly in Lineage II.  BOTH clans needs to mutually accept a clan war.

 

L2, where clans could LITERALLY block an area if they wanted to and inflict huge losses to their enemies and even random passerby.

Don't jump into game design and try to build something from parts of different games, it clearly doesn't work. What you claim is clearly not a 101, it's Frankenstein. 

 

Ah damn, I disagree, so I must be "triggered". 

Last Edit : Mar 23, 2021, 23:44 (UTC)
# 20
On: Mar 23, 2021, 23:07 (UTC), Written by Sadalsuud

L2, where clans could LITERALLY block an area if they wanted to and inflict huge losses to their enemies and even random passerby.

Don't jump into game design and try to build something from parts of different games, it clearly doesn't work. What you claim is clearly not a 101, it's Frankenstein. 

 

Ah damn, I disagree, so I must be "triggered". 

Actually, it worked reasonably well for many years.  BDO also implemented the exp loss upon death.  However, Pearl Abyss is inferior to the NCSoft team in terms of game design.  Everything Pearl Abyss does is the lowest quality work possible.

 

Shall I prove it?  So easy

 

Pearl Abyss put a 1% exp loss penalty (completely avoidable by a *cough* cash shop item).  It has no scaling, it was the laziest coding possible.  Just add a 1% exp loss regardless of level.  Regardless of the exponential increase in exp requirements.  A complete failure.

 

So it was removed.

 

The exp loss in Lineage II was scaled to your level and exp deaths in a mutual clan war reduced the penalty for sides.  A one way war reduced the penalty to the decaling side but did NOT circumvent the Karma System.

 

And yes, you are triggered, because I say you are triggered.  That's how it works.  Don't worry though "it's not an insult".

 

My recollection and knowledge of game design is so vast and superior.  I am the Einstein of game design!

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