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#Gameplay_General
400-600 m/hour Bloody Monastery, Orcs...
Mar 24, 2021, 16:08 (UTC)
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Last Edit : Mar 27, 2021, 03:35 (UTC)
# 41
On: Mar 26, 2021, 12:56 (UTC), Written by Astronaut

His next update will not be PEN BS, while he still missing 2x TET Distortion Earrings, TET Tungrade both Ring and Belt and 3 PEN Armors. 
And than he will need lots and lots of Caphras. 

He is far away from aiming for PEN BS Weapons.

Another 600m/hour 286k Lahn video from ORC, with 45 min weapons, while 400m/hour with out.



480m before Tent/perfume/draught costs which is 73m

66 1583
Lv 62
Ra713
This was deleted by the writer.
Last Edit : Mar 27, 2021, 16:41 (UTC)
# 43
On: Mar 27, 2021, 09:05 (UTC), Written by Astronaut

An explanation would be great. We have Ash Forest, CryptmOllun that are 300 AP zones, make less than this new 270-280 AP zones. 
The initial reports from Korea, when they got Hadum was max 400m/hour and dropping to 300m/hour as prices adjusted. No one ever said anything about 600m/hour. It's a shock to everyone right now. 
Usually big changes like this are followed or procedded  by Dev explanations or letters, or balls where they mentioning it. As a lot of people might misinterpet this as Broken and need " Fixing ". This is the first time we have such profitable zones available for majority of the playerbase and not just few at he top.

If they want to make 600m/hour the new normal for end game, as i said i am fine with that. But they would also need to look at other zones and bring them on pair with this change. If this is an anomaly like SMH was, well they will fix it in a year. But there is no point in keeping this a secret anyway.  Let people enjoy while it lasts. 

And to all others, thank you for bumping, lets keep this topic alive and going. 

So then how exactly are you suggesting End Game players aiming for Pen Accessories make 90 to 100 bil then? You obviously haven't thought this out which is heavily evident by the appearance of your contradicting arguments early. By your logic, self enhancing should be the only means of progression then as 150m an hour would take 600 hours of grinding to afford a pen Ogre. 

 

Buff old spots? Again, PA needs no justification as it's fairly obvious to any vet or seasoned player. Spots are currently  out of your league and you don't like it...simply put. Would you prefer these higher end players pushing 650 gs head back to SE and Abyssals pushing you out so you can go back to Manshums? You're obviously new to BDO or a part time player because those who really have had the patience to grind it out since launch or have been pushing hard daily for gains aren't complaining because they understand. In addition, common sense and past experiences would reiterate how buffing old spots attracts higher skilled and geared players dominating newer players and pushing them away from the game. Hell Bloodwolves and Manshums was a massacre zone for newer players just because of the potion piece addition. Imagine them buffing it from 150/200 to 300m an hour. I'd head back there to easily clear 500m and easily dominant every new player strolling through. PA is not in the business of just trying to infuriate new players to quit. 150 to 200 mil an hour is good for Soft Cap bc upgrades are cheap there. Massive difference between Soft and Hardcap...we're talking thousands of hours difference. There needs to be zones so this is actually feasible.

 

Something you don't even mention is the amount of GVG and DFS that occur in these zones...it's not as "Easy" as you imply, and if it was good, then it'd make hitting cap a hell of a lot easier. It's fine as is, it's only the impatient people I see that have an issue with this. Those who can't sit down and focus on a single character and put in the work to EARN the necessary skills and Gear to make 400 mil an hour. They foolishly tag multiple characters wasting billions instead of testing in trials and then come here and complain about others because they can't benefit from something they're self-sabotaging themselves from obtaining. If you're not grinding at least 2 to 4 hours a day 6 to 7 days a week don't expect to get to Hadum in a month. BDO is a marathon not a race, you'll need patience and time if you're trying to progress, or go back to WOW and enjoy the Seasons.

Last Edit : Mar 27, 2021, 20:02 (UTC)
# 44

Without getting into the topic of who complains about what, I feel like this whole thing is just a temporary state.

Because the prices on the market will just reflect this influx of money sooner or later.

 

For the items that drop, it's easy as 2+2, i.e. there will be simply more supply => prices go lower, just a summply/demand balancing rule.

For other items it will be a bit slower, but eventually will propagate. This is for the reason of "easier to make money" - "easier to enchance" - "more supply of better items". Like - any items.

 

And the market situation is already starting to reflect that. I can't attribute it to only this change, but just look at the prices for pretty much any gear over last 3 months. Here's some data for for you from EU so you don't have to do it:

 

Name Grade Before (~3 month) Now (March 2021) % Price drop
Tungrad Ring Base ~95mil ~90mil 5%
Tungrad Ring PRI ~307mil ~210mil 33%
Tungrad Ring DUO ~866mil ~700mil 19%
Tungrad Ring TRI ~2.4bil ~1.9bil 20%
Tungrad Ring TET ~9.6bil ~9.5bil 1%
Tungrad Earring Base ~70mil ~56mil 20%
Tungrad Earring PRI ~210mil ~120mil 43%
Tungrad Earring DUO ~650mil ~410mil 37%
Tungrad Earring TRI ~1.8bil ~1.3bil 27%
Tungrad Earring TET ~6.6bil ~6.5bil 2%
Tungrad Belt Base ~110mil ~61mil 45%
Tungrad Belt PRI ~300mil ~140mil 53%
Tungrad Belt DUO ~900mil ~495mil 45%
Tungrad Belt TRI ~2.8bil ~1.5bil 46%
Tungrad Belt TET ~10bil ~7.5bil 25%

 

I can get more, but you get the idea. Also looking at the grades it becomes apparent what's happening - the lower the grade is, the shorter is the enhancement way to it and the more there are items of it on the market. Another factor here is that as such gear becomes more available because there is easier way to get it - more players are going to have it so it will shrink the demand even more for lower item grades - while as we see the supply is getting even larger.

 

In the end "higher supply" - "lower demand" for the items of lower grades will mean that it will become much harder to sell items and get even semi-decent price for it. And the price drop will slowly creep into higher and higher tier items.

 

Now is it a good thing or not? I don't know. On one hand, it is very good to see better opportunities for players who can't grind 10 hours a day. On another hand, one of the selling points of BDO to me was very low gear/price creep. When I had an item back in 2017 - it was worth almost the same price in 2018. Or 2019 (at least the beginning of it). But then they became more leninent on the power creep, so.. I have a mixed feeling about it.

 

I bought a TET blackstar and now, 2 weeks later, it dropped 3 bil in price. It's kind of.. worrying.

 

Last Edit : Mar 27, 2021, 20:31 (UTC)
# 45
On: Mar 27, 2021, 19:59 (UTC), Written by Transfinite

Without getting into the topic of who complains about what, I feel like this whole thing is just a temporary state.

Because the prices on the market will just reflect this influx of money sooner or later.

 

For the items that drop, it's easy as 2+2, i.e. there will be simply more supply => prices go lower, just a summply/demand balancing rule.

For other items it will be a bit slower, but eventually will propagate. This is for the reason of "easier to make money" - "easier to enchance" - "more supply of better items". Like - any items.

 

And the market situation is already starting to reflect that. I can't attribute it to only this change, but just look at the prices for pretty much any gear over last 3 months. Here's some data for for you from EU so you don't have to do it:

 

Name Grade Before (~3 month) Now (March 2021) % Price drop
Tungrad Ring Base ~95mil ~90mil 5%
Tungrad Ring PRI ~307mil ~210mil 33%
Tungrad Ring DUO ~866mil ~700mil 19%
Tungrad Ring TRI ~2.4bil ~1.9bil 20%
Tungrad Ring TET ~9.6bil ~9.5bil 1%
Tungrad Earring Base ~70mil ~56mil 20%
Tungrad Earring PRI ~210mil ~120mil 43%
Tungrad Earring DUO ~650mil ~410mil 37%
Tungrad Earring TRI ~1.8bil ~1.3bil 27%
Tungrad Earring TET ~6.6bil ~6.5bil 2%
Tungrad Belt Base ~110mil ~61mil 45%
Tungrad Belt PRI ~300mil ~140mil 53%
Tungrad Belt DUO ~900mil ~495mil 45%
Tungrad Belt TRI ~2.8bil ~1.5bil 46%
Tungrad Belt TET ~10bil ~7.5bil 25%

 

I can get more, but you get the idea. Also looking at the grades it becomes apparent what's happening - the lower the grade is, the shorter is the enhancement way to it and the more there are items of it on the market. Another factor here is that as such gear becomes more available because there is easier way to get it - more players are going to have it so it will shrink the demand even more for lower item grades - while as we see the supply is getting even larger.

 

In the end "higher supply" - "lower demand" for the items of lower grades will mean that it will become much harder to sell items and get even semi-decent price for it. And the price drop will slowly creep into higher and higher tier items.

 

Now is it a good thing or not? I don't know. On one hand, it is very good to see better opportunities for players who can't grind 10 hours a day. On another hand, one of the selling points of BDO to me was very low gear/price creep. When I had an item back in 2017 - it was worth almost the same price in 2018. Or 2019 (at least the beginning of it). But then they became more leninent on the power creep, so.. I have a mixed feeling about it.

 

I bought a TET blackstar and now, 2 weeks later, it dropped 3 bil in price. It's kind of.. worrying.

 

Acessories are droping cause PA shower the people with them to keep them intrested in the game due to "free" stuff and have no realtion to the increased money from grinding.

 

That's true that over a long time, as people earn more money, it will cause inflation, but that would result in the exact opposite price change that you're taking about...

244 4634
Lv 62
Hnnie
Last Edit : Mar 27, 2021, 20:58 (UTC)
# 46
On: Mar 27, 2021, 20:31 (UTC), Written by PlasticDK

Acessories are droping cause PA shower the people with them to keep them intrested in the game due to "free" stuff and have no realtion to the increased money from grinding.

 

That's true that over a long time, as people earn more money, it will cause inflation, but that would result in the exact opposite price change that you're taking about...

 

I do see the point about excessive event and whatnot giveaways, but I disagree about price inflation. In fact, it will be price deflation. I hinted at the reasons above, but let me reiterate:

 

1. Limited demand.

In real life with influx of money prices indeed go up, but that's because the demand outpaces the supply. In real life people have pretty much unlimited demand because first, there are items which are always necessary (food, clothes etc) and second - there is still insensitive to have more of the same item even if it's not essential (like - buy another car or a flat). But in BDO there's no point in owning, say, 2 weapons of exactly same grade. Once you've geared up till the certain level, you're done with that level and your demand is now for the next tier. And as there are more players which attain higher and higher levels with progressively easier way to do so, the demand shrinks fast.

 

2. Increase in income is more items than money

A lot of profits from these giveaways or grind spots come in the form of items and not silver. This is an important distinction. Because now you suddenly have a lot of money locked in as items which you need to convert into silver. Everyone needs it, especially because of the previous point they want to shoot for higher tiers. So the supply of low grade items is suddenly much, much larger. You get a feedback loop where the more income items there are - the less they cost since everyone experiences this increase.

 

3. Enchanting

So, there's nothing special about enhanting per say, it's just a way to move between the grades. A shabby, inconsistend way covered with tears and curses - but still a way. This means that at some point people will stop trying to always sell lower tier items. That's because of the previous 2 points it's worth too little. Therefore it provides for financial incencitive to try enhancing items even if they were expensive to do so in the past. In the end we see that more people resort to enhancing to get to the next tier, so they will not need to buy that same item they enhanced from the market, i.e. the demand decreases. Or - if they try to sell they these items on the market - the supply increases. Either way - prices on the now higher grade items start to go down too.

 

Over long enough time, this supply increase / demand decrease will sap into higher enough grades of items.

 

And my observation is supported by the steady decline in prices on almost any given item. Event giveaways can't account for this entirely. Why else things like TET Orge rings lost price in double percentage digits (I got mine for less than 7 bil). Or say TET blackstars were at 19bil and now I see them at just tad above 15bil..

Last Edit : Mar 27, 2021, 21:15 (UTC)
# 47
On: Mar 27, 2021, 20:49 (UTC), Written by Transfinite

1. Limited demand.

In real life with influx of money prices indeed go up, but that's because the demand outpaces the supply. In real life people have pretty much unlimited demand because first, there are items which are always necessary (food, clothes etc) and second - there is still insensitive to have more of the same item even if it's not essential (like - buy another car or a flat). But in BDO there's no point in owning, say, 2 weapons of exactly same grade. Once you've geared up till the certain level, you're done with that level and your demand is now for the next tier. And as there are more players which attain higher and higher levels with progressively easier way to do so, the demand shrinks fast.

The demand is limited, that's true, and over a time the value of the items in bdo slowly, but gradually drops. (This is actually the same IRL. Look at the TET tungrad as a new phone modell. It's expensiv when comes out, but after a year, it will be old modell hence cheaper.)

But this have no relation to the new grind zones with more silver/h. If anything having more money increases the demand as more people can affort to buy those items.

 

On: Mar 27, 2021, 20:49 (UTC), Written by Transfinite

2. Increase in income is more items than money

A lot of profits from these giveaways or grind spots come in the form of items and not silver. This is an important distinction. Because now you suddenly have a lot of money locked in as items which you need to convert into silver. Everyone needs it, especially because of the previous point they want to shoot for higher tiers. So the supply of low grade items is suddenly much, much larger. You get a feedback loop where the more income items there are - the less they cost since everyone experiences this increase.

I do not grind them, but I doubt tungrad rings and belts are dropping in elvira, so how is it releated?

Yes a new neclance is droping which lower the value of the other necklances slightly.

PA do occasionally destroy the market of certain items, nothing new here, they neither care about the market nor know how it's working. Tehy're liek: loook!! free stuff! you can haz free stuff! buy pearl plz!!

 

On: Mar 27, 2021, 20:49 (UTC), Written by Transfinite

And my observation is supported by the steady decline in prices on almost any given item. Event giveaways can't account for this entirely. Why else things like TET Orge rings lost price in double percentage digits (I got mine for less than 7 bil). Or say TET blackstars were at 19bil and now I see them at just tad above 15bil..

I got more ogre rings from free rewards and  rifts in just the last two week (12), than I got in the whole last year. Guess why it's pirce dropping...

Also TET BS ain't worth 19B since long, if you bought yours for that amount then you pretty much got scammed.

 

244 4634
Lv 62
Hnnie
Last Edit : Mar 27, 2021, 21:58 (UTC)
# 48

I got TET BS for ~16.5b and saw the price at less than 14 this week (granted, it was on a different type of weapon, but still), it's awakening BS by the way.

As for "gradually drops" - that's true. But it's hard to call two-digits % price drop topping at 50% over just 3 months a "gradual" drop.

 

But - yes, I do not exclude the possibility that I miss something here. It's just that the numbers one can predict for supply/demand as well as marketplace numbers do agree with this idea.

 

 

Last Edit : Mar 27, 2021, 23:06 (UTC)
# 49

I think you're missing his original point, he feels that some spots shouldn't drop the amount of loot values it currently does, which to afford pen accessories is absolutely necessary.  Every Pen comes from someone else's enhancing, and I don't know a single newer player that can even manage to enhance on optimal failstacks consistently. Vets and Seasoned players are providing those Pens and yes, while accessories prices are dropping for bases, they are not for Pens...and the supply is abysmal as well. At the current rate it takes to buy a Pen Ogre, you're looking at 300 to 400 hours of straight grinding or a combination of other jobs...regardless its a huge time investment.  Only way to get this down is to decrease the cost of bases to encourage self enhancing...this of course will eventually provide more supply in turn lowering that 100bil for a single item over time. The current system works, not to mention the excellent catchup mechanics the market is allowing to reach soft cap. I know new players who thanks to PAs handing out of base accessories and the cheap market are sitting at 261 with tet accessories in 60 days.  Just off the free failstacks and amount of free bases, I've made 3 gold tet necks in March alone. This is huge and never before has it been this easy in BDO. Only those who are impatient and expecting a free ride complain.

 

Every other suggestion here will cause an even larger gear gap between end game and software because both self enhancing and already enhanced gear will remain too high in price. 

Last Edit : Mar 29, 2021, 11:36 (UTC)
# 50

yeah be proud to show what a hero you are ! 95 % from the BDO players they don't having the silver for such gear 95% from the BDO players still hanging between 240AP and 270AP . Like a say before i don't need that grinding spots - I love the Ocean ! But the system wan't change the brilliant items , that we can urn faster this items , I just want go sail with a Big Ship so that i can enjoy - for me sailing - killing sea monsters , fishing " I love it " If you having BIL's on silver you can buy a God Armor sure , but with BIL's on silver we can't even buy blue gear for or ships !!!

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