You're misinformed about highend zones. Hexe and UG and Starlight from what i have seen doesnt have much pvp unless on arsha and you rarely get dfs much. Griefing is limited at the highend . The only spots i have seen major griefing are Upper Gyfin during event for a guilds pleasure and centaurs i havent seen any other place have Griefing to the extent people have commented it seems no one comments on what high end spots they are speaking of, as far as i can tell high end spots are pretty well balanced for players and population. Just the lower geared players (vetrans returning and new players)seem to fight over low end spots not knowing the value of any of the spots as they dont have the access to resources like Garmoth.com. Treasure items are exception and it was designed like this with pvp in mind which they stated a couple of balls ago. Its why apart from HP MP pot there is not pitty pieces for true Treasure items its designed to be intereactive with aggression. 

Edit: They also added marni realm to mitigate new players being bullied from hp /mp places to.

In my mind players are always going to compete over rotations they want to grind for whatever reason. Maybe they just swapped or they already used their marni realm. There are tools to help alleviate the pressure of congested locations but the problem will always remain until a soloution is found.

Id me and some other guy both want to grind centaurs and neither of us would rather just leave there needs to be a system to let the players battle for supremecy over the route until one of them departs to seek satisfaction elsewhere. I think its best to allow us to fight with the tools we have put so much time and effort into, the equipment and experience we have honed over a long period.  I think this is a much better soloutiuon than allowing players to grief the shit out of eachother until one person's experience sis o terrible that they leave. this is still pvp in my mind, just using a different set of rules thats not able to be regulated or balanced. Theres no diminishing returns or pity system to cap how awful a person can be.

Your lack of effort and knowledge really shows clearly here.  If you actually travelled to the locations in the game or even watched videos posting silver/hr you would not be coming to such bad conclusions.  Even the streamers are starting to mock and meme over how bad some areas are.

You can't get griefed or DFS at Elvia Saunil/Giants/Rhut because you can't find another person around 24/7 even AFTER they supposedly reworked the areas.

The reason Hex doesn't have the same issues is because 99.999% of the player base doesn't have the gear for it.

Bloody Monestary is over crowded the entire time of a drop event while Eliva Nagas (SAME Cup SAME RARE) is vacant.

Orcs main rotation is a complete disaster, but NONE of those players will ever move to other spots because even granting a massive gear score range it's just not worth it.

Everyone knows Centaurs is just broken with Agris.

The grind locations are about as balanced as the classes.

The reason why Treasure pieces are not a cesspool anymore is simply because they are old content.

Also the people talking about people needing to mob feed are all lying constantly.  They get upset when they can't bully other players that won't just give up their rotations. 

Noone is lying about needing to mob feed. Its the obvious and rational soloution to an idiotic problem. If the game wont let me send them a message to go somewhere else through normal pvp I'll use another method available to me to get the point across. when someone runs into my spot and grinds my creeps, thats rude. If you're in a ghille suit or have no guild and start grinding my shit, im going to feed your ass to mobs.

simple as.

I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU.  Or any of these people making up fake stories about how everyone just walks up and grinds in their spot.

If it was TRUE I would have witnessed it myself through 1,000's of hours of grinding.  Do you think I'm magical?  I have grinded virtually every spot in the game for extended periods of time.

Why is that NO ONE ever just walks up and grinds in my face?  Why do I never have to PK people trying to take my spot?

And WHY do all these people claiming it's an issue always cower and refuse to go to Arsha?

I absolutely DO NOT BELIEVE YOU.

Its a pretty wierd take to think that a huge portion of the playerbase have been posting for years about an issue that isnt actually in the game.

as far as why yopu dont ex[erience this, its a good question. Coult be because you're awake at 6 am on a sunday and most other folks are asleep.

Also arsha is a completely different topic. This thread is about the karma system, and arsha dosent even have a karma system.

So you are new to MMO PVP?  It's ALWAYS been about who has the most time to waste to diminish the game of others until they give up.  

It stands for PLAYER VS PLAYER

If you assumed they are going to compete or or be nice, that's on you.  The reality is PVP games are ran more like a prison and it's not pretty.  The strong bully the weak and get away with whatever they can.  Being SMART and EFFECTIVE are the most powerful tools.  Even if that means griefing everyone with dirty tactics. 

THAT is the true meaning of PVP

And don't forget everyone needs a pathetic excuse for why they lost lol.  Zerg!!!

Pearl Abyss couldn't run Shadow Arena because of mass cheating and exploiting, yet THESE PEOPLE are supposed to moderate themselves in game?  Seriously?  They can't even get them to NOT CHEAT and destroy the game lol.

Uh, nothing you said is even remotely true. There are plenty of MMOs with pvp that isnt focused arpound just wasting eachother's time until someone gives up. There have been MMOs with pvp that has a determined end. in classic wow if someone killed you you rrespawn at a GY that could be far far away. if you keep getting killed by that same person you end up having a long rez timer so you cant repeatedly harass them. Just one example. In Runescape not only can the other player kill you for free you also just lost all of your equipment. Respawning in lumbridge and buying a new set gives you plenty of time to think about something else you could be doing.

Moreover, I dont think anyone even remotely sane would co-sign the notion that since its a pvp game literally everything under the sun and including actions that trancend the game should be on the table.

If you think PA cant be trusted to make any changes thats fine, but if you think that why are you here in a thread discussing a topic you think is pointless?

Well if being polite and getting an answer from person grinding results futile, then we have the ability to alt+c in the game and if that still doesn't get your attention we can declare guild war and you're gonna be farmed basically until you leave. If you didn't want to dfs and decide 'not to agree' with something well sure but just remember that there is a line of people waiting to grind in the same rotation. Not every spot has lots of rotations, there is a server CD, people came here to play and not everyone has 3hrs on their hands, 1-2 to grind and 1hr to search for an empty spot server. Btw, you're just as capable of pvp'ing and defending the spot, you have equal chance of winning, and who knows it might just stay yours for the rest of the hour...

Oh and btw such player is not a griefer, because somebody can perceive you as a griefer not agreeing to the rules, how's that ? Either we are both griefers or neither of us are griefers, but you're wrong calling one side griefer simply cus you're the 'bullied' one apparently. Sure there's no standard or official way of dealing with things that was stated by the developer.. or the game you know, whatever. It's up to you whether you want to agree to the rules or disagree to them. I suppose they thought of that but just not that far.. forced pvp was a half way solution for these disputes. If it wasn't there people would find other ways to grief and troll you. Prolly marni's realm was to negate that slightly.

Also you said above "Why do I never have to PK people trying to take my spot?" because you usually dont PK someone who's trying to take your spot ?

They PK you if you refuse to talk or duel lol. You're the grinder, you defend the spot, if somebody tries taking it from you it's either through slightly more 'officials/known ways' which is duel in which you get to keep the spot if you win OR by force without prior notifying you, that's harsh sure (I never attack out of the blue, never) but well if that happens all you have to do is defend it anyway, cus if he sees he's undergeared and he can't kill you, he wont attempt same shit over and over, however if he one taps you, you might ressurect and try to attempt to kill him back in hopes to show that the spot is still being used or defended by you, and if you've been proved again that he's extremely high geared and you can't touch him, well then you are the one to leave. At least that's how I go and majority of the people if it comes to the 'harsh' way. I never tried to karma bomb anyone or feed to the mobs or troll or steal mobs. Waste of time. It's a simple win or lose, you stay or leave and that's it. Only thing is if you refuse to duel I can't be bothered keep searching for servers and meeting another one of you. I see if I can kill you through alt+c and if you show no attention to me. Guild dec and we're done. Simple

Cause it's same like Rust, imagine loging in to a server and look you get killed by a player somewhere in the jungle, you seriously can't complain about that. Give me a break. These are all pvp games. People will use the forced pvp mode if they feel like they need to, it's there in the game.

So the only solution would be to add a lot more marni realm spots around the map