people came here to play and not everyone has 3hrs on their hands, 1-2 to grind and 1hr to search for an empty spot server.

Btw, you're just as capable of pvp'ing and defending the spot, you have equal chance of winning, and who knows it might just stay yours for the rest of the hour...

Cause it's same like Rust, imagine loging in to a server and look you get killed by a player somewhere in the jungle, you seriously can't complain about that.

So the only solution would be to add a lot more marni realm spots around the map

Well if being polite and trying to get an answer from the person grinding results futile, then we have the ability to alt+c in the game and if that still doesn't get your attention we can declare guild war and you're gonna be farmed basically until you leave. If you didn't want to dfs and decide 'not to agree' with something well sure but just remember that there is a line of people waiting to grind in the same rotation. Not every spot has lots of rotations, there is a server CD, people came here to play and not everyone has 3hrs on their hands, 1-2 to grind and 1hr to search for an empty spot server. Btw, you're just as capable of pvp'ing and defending the spot, you have equal chance of winning, and who knows it might just stay yours for the rest of the hour...

Oh and btw such player is not a griefer, because somebody can perceive you as a griefer not agreeing to the rules, how's that ? Either we are both griefers or neither of us are griefers, but you're wrong calling one side griefer simply cus you're the 'bullied' one apparently. Sure there's no standard or official way of dealing with things that was stated by the developer.. or the game you know, whatever. It's up to you whether you want to agree to the rules or disagree to them. I suppose they thought of that but just not that far.. forced pvp was a half way solution for these disputes. If it wasn't there people would find other ways to grief and troll you. Prolly marni's realm was to negate that slightly.

Also you said above "Why do I never have to PK people trying to take my spot?" because you usually dont PK someone who's trying to take your spot ? They PK you if you refuse to talk or duel lol. You're the grinder, you defend the spot, if somebody tries taking it from you it's either through slightly more 'officials/known ways' which is duel or by force without prior notifying you, that's harsh sure but well if that happens all you have to do is defend it anyway, cus if he sees he's undergeared and he can't kill you, he wont attempt same shit over and over, however if he one taps you, you might ressurect and try to attempt to kill him back in hopes to show that the spot is still being used or defended by you, and if you've just been proved that he's extremely high geared and you can't touch him, well then you are the one to leave. At least that's how I go and majority of the people if it comes to the 'harsh' way. I never tried to karma bomb anyone or feed to the mobs or troll or steal mobs.

Cause it's same like Rust, imagine loging in to a server and look you get killed by a player somewhere in the jungle, you seriously can't complain about that. Give me a break. These are all pvp games. People will use the forced pvp mode if they feel like they need to, it's there in the game.

So the only solution would be to add a lot more marni realm spots around the map

"Why do I never have to PK people trying to take my spot?

Well if being polite and getting an answer from person grinding results futile,

Oh and btw such player is not a griefer, because somebody can perceive you as a griefer not agreeing to the rules, how's that ? Either we are both griefers or neither of us are griefers, but you're wrong calling one side griefer simply cus you're the 'bullied' one apparently

It's up to you whether you want to agree to the rules or disagree to them.

Since you edited your post I answer again.

Uh, nothing you said is even remotely true. There are plenty of MMOs with pvp that isnt focused arpound just wasting eachother's time until someone gives up. There have been MMOs with pvp that has a determined end. in classic wow if someone killed you you rrespawn at a GY that could be far far away. if you keep getting killed by that same person you end up having a long rez timer so you cant repeatedly harass them. Just one example. In Runescape not only can the other player kill you for free you also just lost all of your equipment. Respawning in lumbridge and buying a new set gives you plenty of time to think about something else you could be doing.

Moreover, I dont think anyone even remotely sane would co-sign the notion that since its a pvp game literally everything under the sun and including actions that trancend the game should be on the table.

If you think PA cant be trusted to make any changes thats fine, but if you think that why are you here in a thread discussing a topic you think is pointless?

Yea you're right it's my bad it wasn't you who said that quote earlier but your clone kekw. Jeesus the originality of avatars.

But anyways if you went through the trouble to go back a page to read it again, I suppose you could've edited yours too

Ok up to this point I tried to understand you and show you the way how others are thinking about this whole incident. Just like I said it's a gray area. I've seen people like you and I've seen people like me, it's a fair split. However I do not agree saying first come first serve in these circumstances is correct.

I'm not gonna quote you now and answer to each sentence like you do, instead I'm just going to address it as a whole about what you said. You just keep saying you were there first therefore it's yours, you already grind here and that in this situation you're the correct one if somebody barges in your private territory right, you made it yours lol, privatised. Doesn't work like that.

Before this even started I didn't think of it as you're the griefer, or I'm the griefer since im disturbing your holy hour.
I just simply call it a dispute between 2 people that's it. And we have to deal with it. Duel, alt+c and later guild dec is one of a solution.

I remember before you said something along the lines... You're the griefer, you're invading a spot and ruining farm.
But it's a pvp game, there is alt+c mechanic and just like I can push you out of the spot anyone else can do that too, AND you can also defend your spot.

You said, you don't complain about pvp and you even like it! Meaning, you have a general interest in pvping with others, if it's not a lie. But you don't like when people force their way to play though. Then again, Rust example, it's a game where you build your base and keep a stash of your resources basically. I know its annoying to get killed there and lose progress, but guess what, you surely wouldn't start telling the person who killed you how you found this small piece of forest and you were there first so they have no right to claim it ? ? ? I suppose you at least sort of agreed to it before when I mentioned Rust example and now you're going against that logic. This game is no different from that one. That's why I dont see you being correct here and still defending yourself. If you don't like the arrangment of dfs. If the game allows forced pvp mechanic. Well you know what... we gonna use that.

I think DFS agreement is a mature way of dealing with the problems that could arise later without agreeing to it. That's why people thought of it and it was a simple yet working solution. For you to be right, PA would need to change the game a bit, or at least increase Marni Realm amounts in the areas. Which obviously would be great for both parties.

The gaming community can NEVER be trusted to regulate itself.  This has been proven year after year with NEVER a single point in history when this has not been the base.  People used macros/bots/duping in the early games decades ago and nothing has changed.

Recently Lost Ark just banned over 200,000 accounts and it's not even close to all of them.

Want proof that Pearl Abyss knows this?  Do you see TRADING in the game?  Do you know WHY BDO has NEVER had proper TRADING?

It's because Pearl Abyss was concerned people would absue it, cheat, bot, RMT that they wouldn't even put it into the game.

Thus a question YOU can not answer becuase YOU don't like the answer.  How could the SAME customers that CAN NOT be trusted to do basic trading be trusted to regulate disputes amoung themselves?

Im not answering the question about bots and RMT because that isnt that the topic of discussion. This thread is about the karma system and possible revisions. If you want to just dump out all your greivances with the game im sure theres another thread for that.

I do however agree that players cant be relied on to regulate themselves. Thats one of the primary reasons that the karma system needs to be reviewed. One type of griefing is openly allowed (entering someone's rotation and simply grinding it out from under them until they leave.) while another is harshly sanctioned. (killing another player for nearly any reason.) The imbalance here is the source of some of the worst interactions you can experience in the game, most specifically mob feeding.

You are missing some major faults.  No one has problems with people that agree to DFS.  The problem arises when people try to abuse the game with mob feeding.

These problems are almost exclusive to BDO.  These problems are created by Pearl Abyss.  They essentially created game servers that host (X) amount of players, but only support (Y) amount of players.

That's why in other games this issue isn't much problem.  Even in many PVP games they are designed properly so you don't need to push people out of the game just to progress.

What you and all the so called PVPers advocate for is private instances not PVP or Karma changes.  It's impossible for a PVP player to complain about people coming into their rotation.

You can not advocate for limited resources and then complain when people have to fight over them.

Your PREMISE is a lie and make NO SENSE.

All anyone needs to say to you is ONE single world.

ARSHA

There is NO SUCH THING as being karma bombed or people taking your spot.

ARSHA

Fix it yourself

ARSHA

Never get your rotation invaded again

ARSHA

Never complain again

ARSHA