It's the PVPers alway crying about it.  Because they can't just take the best spots and force everyone out.

That's what this entire post is about.  People crying they can't bully others and REFUSING to go to the PVP server.

Karma doesn't exist for TRUE PVPers.  Stop crying and GIT GUD.  ARSHA

I had a blast writing this. Hope you have a blast reading this

You're wrong saying its infrequent, almost non existent.
Meaning, something like once every 1 month, or what even 2 months ? kekw.
That's just ridiculous even if you go by 3-4 weeks without such incidents, either you play every now and then for 1.5hr a day and yes your data pool then would be small, or you're lying. Which I'm thinking either both of the latter one. 'Cause you do sound like a casual even though spouting all those "1k, 10k" hrs of playthough over the years. So its the latter one for sure, cus you could also be playing 10hrs a day and lying here too. What do we know ? can we confirm it ? What are you gonna post screenshots and videos now ? lol. I'd actually be interested to view your game profile here on forum, which you havent setup of course.. But what you are saying is either short playing time or you simply lie.
How is that my data and my friends data, and my guilds data, and even several I've been in over the years, talking in discords, have all similar experience to mine (which basically means the entire majority of player base has similar experience if you have the interest in this game, and not only propogating for changes on forums) that what you talked about you run into it, well not exactly on a daily basis, but if you play 1-2hrs a day you should see at least once every 2 weeks. which is actually frickin frequent at this point. Defo can't call it almost non existent :D cus that would make it roughly 2 to 4 or more times a month, which is already noticeable and will be engraved in your experience.
You're lying. And we can't check what you're saying is true.

Usually people who say their info and knowledge is top notch and call themselsves experts are the ones at the bottom. You don't need to say that to people, if that's true they will notice it themselves.

I can tell you my arsha experience. I go in I die 2 times to the same dude if I see I can't kill him cus either of skill or gear gap, I go diff rota. Also, if i get killed when I grinded on my rota same 2-3 times, I wont come back. I lost to one zerker couple times at orcs the other day, i left but lingered for a few min around the spot sorting stuff, a hash came and took zerker out, zerker came back 3-4 times and even he gave up to the hash in the end.
This translates to normal server too. By dueling you avoid the shitshow that can happen if you don't. I lose a duel I leave and go elsewhere or if I win, which i have exactly same chance of winning as the other person, then I get to keep the spot. Also, it was a nice duel/pvp experience.

I think the amount of body throwing and karma bombing has decreased with time. People who usually have more time on their hands which means younger people will tend to get salty and more emotional over a game, resulting in karma bombing, mob feeding and what not. But I see less and less of that. Granted though, I play less because of work. What increased though within years is people not agreeing to duel or simply ignoring one or the other person, resulting in shitshow as well. Not always of course, but there's like a 50% chance it will lol.

I remember you said somewhere PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO PVP, they wanna grind calmly in their area, people just want to pve, grind mobs, they can't be bothered to stop grinding and losing their spot, buffs while getting involved in some mess. Smth like that, Well sure, but who are you to talk for majority again and say PEOPLE.

Are you forgeting what the game is about ? Why do we grind for hours ? It's exactly for that reason so that we could pvp later on and have better survivability than just a after season character. It's so that we can go to the spot not under geared or barely meeting req, but eventually going above, and always being able to defend our spot. I believe that's why people grind, so they could keep grinding even more but with a pre text that it's gonna help them defends their spots. What does this mean in the end, that you get to enjoy both aspects of the game, killing mobs and fighting players

I like how you always say anyone that thinks this.. that.. people don't want that.. All these SAME PEOPLE..
What are you talking about and how are you able to do this. Where do you get these statistics of what the people want ? You're speaking on behalf of majority from your standpoint of changing the game cus you love it so much but you don't like it's conflict engulfing you once you're in open world. Sounds to me more that whenever you say, ALL PEOPLE, PLAYERS DONT WANT, PLAYERS WANT, is what you think and want without understanding the underlying fundemental of this game. Which can be adjusted if we get any changes regarding this topic sure, but it's not gonna become full on soft pve only game like you want. So what's the point

Again you say things like significant portion... customer base will just bail.. OTHER top mmorpg have millions of active users... bla bla bla. Ok but again, BDO is prolly one of its kind when it was released, there's a reason there's BDO and then there's OTHER games... We all knew what the game is gonna be about, devs know the same thing, us players too, that the games' pve slightly sucks sometimes or is not anything special (at least was sometime ago until major QoL changes and old zone reworks and new zone additions becoming more and more original and more interesting lets say) .. the game is all about pvp, its main focus is pvp. Say whatever you want. But the reason why BDO isn't super successfull with over 1-2mln of active players is because it's not a MAINSTREAM mmmorpg game, it's an insanely long and hard grindy game. That's not a secret. That is the major reason why it doesn't attract more people. And tbh who cares, what we have now is fine and works, bdo is fine with its population. It was always enjoying its avg. stable 25k active players from steam charts ONLY and peaking to 40 and 70k after major updates, with the STAND ALONE client having the rest of player base I suppose. Because judging by mmo-population.com we used to sit between 200 and 250k active players. Not sure how real the numbers are, but even if it's a third of that. It's really healthy tbh. It's not gonna become a WoW player numbers, not gonna be FF14 numbers. So stop saying it's the pvp that people are not into and just make all pve servers, idk whatever, even if they do that and make a game heaven for YOU. You will see an influx of 15-20% of people maybe and then you gonna drop 25-35% in return. Because bdo won't change another thing it's good at, being insanely grindy game. THAT'S WHY it can't be mainstream and with millions of players. It's very simple. Devs took a leap you could say to make it like that and to satisfy only a specific portion of the customers. Can't do it all man. Can't win em all. Doesn't work like that.

The moment you add more PVE servers or more closed instance grinding zones, it's prolly gonna become more boring and whales gonna start leaving, because who they gonna be fighting or showing off their gear ? Who's gonna be feeding the devs ? You will kill your beloved game.

Think what you wish for.

So stop saying all these things, everyone here knows you are the MINORITY that speaks of it like that. Bdo will never change what it is, there's a reason there's bdo in the market how it is like I said, because that's how devs chose to make it and there's also OTHER games, you're free to try them out.

Ehh, what a long post. Tbh I don't even know if I'm speaking on the topic anymore or at least well about half way there. But I sure know most of us got diverted from main topic of Karma System to the etiquetes and morals of pvping, to entire game design choices and developer talks.. Oh boy.

That's incorrect to say.

People aren't confident going arsha is 'cause they already tried it and no matter how new you are you will try it eventually but you know why they won't stay and populate Arsha servers more ? Cus of the even bigger gear disparity than on normal servers.

I can confidently pvp in any up to 290 ap zone and have about an equal match up roughly 60-75% of time

If I go arsha, that number changes to only about 35%

You can also go to a lower AP area, chances are there's that guy with over 300AP and you're gonna get sent to the under world.

Your conclusion would be not to come back until you're severely more geared. Nothing to do with what you said before or about types of people.

But yes, saying karma doesn't exist for true PVPers is correct. Because they are true PVPers, most likely have very good gear to accomodate them, so they WILL go arsha.

And what's the % of good geared people ? Yes!

Your so-called "source" is a failed concept that didn't make it past test server.

Also, this "source" doesn't explain anything being "exploited" like you said it would.  Rather, was a failed concept to alleviate players (like you) who complain about PvP.  So you provided a source that doesn't even back up your claim, for multiple reasons.

Did you even read your own "source"? 

Obviously not.

L

Strawman argument.  The Karma System is open to abuse.

The devs are aware of it, hence their quote at 2021 Calpheon Ball, where they literally said they're aware it's abusable and are thinking of ways to fix that.  Like, point blank, black and white text, word for word, not some vague, miscontruable and misinterpretable verbiage, and failed concepts that you bring up.

This thread is for explaining how it can be abused and potential ideas put forth by the community to alleviate the issues being discussed.  You are for derailing conversations and providing multiple logical fallacies and bad faith arguments, with every single post you make, so keep it up buddy.  You're on record for the fastest banned account and most downvotes -- so keep it up, you might even beat your record set by one of your previous 5 hidden/unlinked/anonymous accounts that are now banned :)

This post just screams a weakminded arguement and it went to a demented assumption.

The so called from your perspective "PvP players" do not seem to say it's a "defective product". They keep playing the game. Write ideas for improvement and stay with the game's concept. If you are left with nothing to contribute with go back to your cave, ban evader.

Drink your pills too. :) Because any posts from you are now Дъра, дъра, два чадъра and/or showing "affection" to PeaceInChaos. :) What's this obsession?

Moreover, the simple fact of talking about PvPers breaks his argumentation. As far as I know, most of the participants here are pvpve players : pvp is part of our fun, but pve is too... That's why regulated owpvp is a better setting for us, it puts limits on the use of pk...

... And that's why limits should also be put on bodythrowing and mob feeding. 

And the PvE players, including you, cry that the spots can't support all those players and thus not having max efficiency.

Surprise: Trying to outfarm others on the same spot is also a form of PvP.

Don't forget that Steam only is a small minority of players and it only covers EU/NA. After all, BDO is also released in other regions like KR, SEA, Russia, Thailand and so on.