Title: Make "Duel for spot" a feature
Family Name: Meatballia
Region (NA/EU): EU
Suggestion/Comments: 

As a result of the heated (for me, at least) debates over the topic, I went ahead and tried to refine the concept a bit. I'm certain the suggestion below is far from ideal, but here's hoping there'll be more constructive criticism to refine it further.

Some dfs are bound to fail entirely (with or without any system in place), as there's a much stronger incentive atm to grind low AP zones than whatever the mid-game is offering. However, I still hope that there can be a way to incetivize players to be more civil towards each other... or to coerce, if not.

Jan 27th - Introduced Desymoo's suggestions for karma calculations and other small points (for an expanded presentation, check page 13, post #128).

Thanks for reading!

Is there ANY limit to how far these so called PVP players will go to AVOID THE PVP SERVER?

That bad idea was already proposed long ago.

It's also a HUGE request from a company that can't even figure out you are not supposed to unflag during combat or PK a player that returns in 20 seconds just to find that PKer somehow is not only NOT RED they are not even flagged.

BDO's entire PVP system is essentially just a poor mans copy/paste of other products.  Except it lacks all the proper controls and mechanisms that made them work.  It's where you face palm recognizing they just copied features with no idea how any of it is supposed to work.

And with tradition is the lowest quality work possible.  Want proof?  It takes about .001 seconds to immediately prove that.

The original concept was 1% exp loss and STILL is for PVE.  It does not take into account the level of the player at all.  Meaning the exp loss is literally between 1 second and over 1,000 hours.  Sounds pretty lazy and incompetent to me.  Even worse it's designed to literally pay to cover it up.

Pearl Abyss couldn't be bothered to scale the exp in accordance to your current level really?  To much to ask eh?   Basic math ?

Good intent @Harth.

I've already suggested something a bit different in the execution (more to prevent the forced dfs, so a feature aside would be good yeah, if it's wanted by both parts):

- Flagged zones for grinding with rotations in the open world (so not separated instances like Marni's) for 1 hour 05 minutes.

The rotation would have to be restarted everytime it ends or it becomes available.

Everytime it ends, anybody can validate the spot for 1 hour 05 minutes.

The flagged zone would apply to any player in the same group or platoon than the one who validated it.

CONSEQUENCES:

-> any invader would keep losing karma if pking flagged players in the zone.

-> any grinder who has his rotation validated (flagged) would lose no karma by killing an invader (so no karma bomb possible).

-> any invader would be killable for 10 minutes (or until the end of the flag) even out of the rotation zone (so wherever on the map) as soon as he made action on the taken zone, like activate mobs or hit the player(s) already in the flagged zone. This would be to prevent the come and go of griefers.

-> any flagged zone where people are not grinding would become available after 10 minutes of inactivity in the zone, so anybody else could take it for another 1 hour 05 minutes.

-> if there's any action from an invader like trying to mob feed, if the targeted player (flagged) dies in the 10 seconds in the mobs after an action from the outsider (on the player or on the mobs), the outsider would lose karma anyway.

All this would prevent griefers on spots of people who have already searched for 30 minutes an available spot without bothering anyone before. If the first guys arrived made that effort and took so much time to find their spot, the griefers who wanna force dfs could actually do the same.

Duel for Spot is not a rule, it's an arrangement within players.

If they wanna do it, they still can Duel, no consequences then.

But for those who don't wanna duel and don't wanna lose their buffs, it's understandable too.

So that way, DFS canno't be FORCED as it uses to be, and it's toxic.

Furthermore, this arrangeemnt had been made by a time where there was no spot to farm... just a few and only 1 or 2 really rewarding.

It's not the case anymore now. So much new zones have opened, Marni's have come, Elvia Zones are everywhere...

DFS is obsolete. It's just more comfortable for the ones who do not want to spend their time looking for a spot, they prefer to ruin the farm of others and their buffs.

Not cool.

It's not an obligation and the dfs players should learn that.

My hope was, technically, to get rid of the gratuitous war decs over... wearing the wrong shade of pink, if you want :D And the constant complaint about that was that you can't not declare on everyone, everywhere, everytime because karma bombing and griefing and whatever other bad conduit you can think of.

I mean, here's an example: 

Player 1: "DFS"

Player 2: "Okay!" > starts attacking player one as soon as the duel request is accepted.
Player 1: "Are you an idiot?! You didn't say "r"".
Player 2: "Monkey!"
Player 1: "And now you insult me?" > proceeds to declare war on player 1's guild.

Bad conduit for sure! Strong reason to declare.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. Overall, I had positive experience when meeting/fighting other players. So I, for one, see no need for it as a mechanic. But "dfs" and the whole blob of traditions associated with it are always a hot potato for quite a good amount of players. And again, the mechanic would be, for me, a means to an end, that end being cutting down on wardec abuses too.

You want pve zones, pretty much. With heavy penalties for any pvp and with no way to contest a spot. However my intention isn't to keep the player safe from any pvp, but to prevent abuses on both sides. And also clear the air on the "rules" of dfs. Which rules differ from person to person. 

I don't dfs and I usually don't engage in pvp at all on non pvp servers and I don't visit Arsha too often. And when they happen, 9/10 times my encounters end pretty fast without much bloodshed.

@Harth

I go sometimes too on Arsha for free and open pvp. It's funnier when everybody agrees on the rules! ^^ Pvp is not toxic there, we all accept that!

I don't usually dfs either and I remember when I started the game, when people high stuffed wanted to force dfs on me, I could never farm and improve... By that time I even hesitated to leave the game because of that. (several friends of mine left, I'm one persistant though)

So I must say, personnaly, I've been disgusted by this dfs thing. Too much forced, too much threats, too much insults... Nobody likes to be forced into something, nobody likes imposition.

Pretty nice example of something that happens too much!

And not only that, many other ways of toxicity.

Although, my system would prevent useless gvg's too! The intent is not to avoid pvp, it's to avoid grind ruining. Pvp can still happen everywhere, out of flagged zones and out of flag time. That way, there's more positive pvp, less ruining, less insults since the system would allow pvp for people who want it and not only by one side.

Now your proposition is interesting too.

I'm thinking out loud about some kind of compromise:

-> normal zones with my system, since all kind of players are on it so they can enjoy their experience until they have the gear for more.

-> Elvia zones with your system, since only high geared players are on it (and also, usually, those who are used to dfs!).

Some sort of a system where the most rewarding zones could be "challenged"!

What do you think?

Edit: Also, both systems would require the same zones desigh by the devs so it's manageable. (because we should also think about what can be done or not before submitting an idea)

From the title, I thought that I would say "no way"

... But the proposal sounds good. I didn't check every aspect for potential abuse right now, but at worst it seems like a good basis for a new system. Though I would not put any additional buff for the defender, and I would prevent the use of flag as long as someone is present in the vicinity (or else, you can be sure that some players would track down players who did not use their flags, or put it near a popular road to jump on players).

Lets shut down this terrible idea instantly like it was in the past.

Please refrain from posting ideas that are ALREADY in the game.

Requirements: Tough Guy Icon, Fence, Strawberry

Step 1: Log into Arsha

Step 2: Place a fence in your grind rotation

Step 3: Plant a strawberry in your garden

This magical Strawberry will REMOVE all Karma loss from invaders in your spot.

You're welcome.  Now lets SEE if you will ahere to YOUR OWN IDEA (Spoiler You WON'T)

I'm sorry, but it doesn't look like you gave a rat's bottock about actually reading the suggestion and are rather reacting to a mix of "make dfs a feature" and "plant a flag". Also, your analogy is terrible. Also, also, what karma loss on Arsha? 

But let's put it another way: you enjoy dec'ing over ppl not seeing you, refusing your duel request, or maybe you like to karmabomb others? Something has to be it.

As I've stated above, I didn't disagree with what you've said there. But now? I don't even know what you're talking about... Sorry!

This is already exits.

1, U write "hi" into generall chat

2, The u write "dfs pls"

3, The u click the duel button

4, ???

5, Lastly write "gf" into chat.

The grind spots should be open to be challenged at all times, 'cause otherwise, say during a treasure event, you'd roam the home servers for a bit longer than forever with - sometimes - little chance of find any available one.

Also, in my experience, there's more... uhm, let's call it toxicity in low-to-mid gearscore areas. It's where people exhibit a stronger disregard for other people's rotation, time, you name it. It's also the low-to-mid gearscore areas that are busier, so it's where it would be a bit more challenging to take up all the available space (extremely limited, by the way) with perma personal grind spots, 'cause that's what they'd be, when there's no way to actually remove that flag: a marni zone through which other ppl can't breeze through and try to ks your mobs (since there's no place for the grind in and no way to challenge your own spot). Tricky...

I did open the post by saying some zones would need to be redesigned a bit for the flag system to work and some zone would just not be suitable for that at all, probably.

If there's a will, there's a way... to abuse any system, that is. Challengers could still try to sneak and ks, for example. So maybe the "Spot taken!" debuff would need to set the challenger's drop chance to 0, for example. I dunno. Not many things would change, overall, with the flags, except for the burning need to declare to prevent karma loss or because of "inappropriate conduit during dfs".

It could probably be refined to meet everyone disgruntled by the current system halfway. Hell! I'd be totally okay to replace the flag with a magical strawberry too! ;)