You are talking to forum warriors that won't be able to comprehend about half the words you are using.  You have to dumb it down for your target audience ROFL.  Just a pro tip ;)

I was just pointing the fact that you were obviously wrong. Red alt and mob feeding are hypothetical? Sure.

That's why I said that the problem should be taken right from the start, the karma and death penalties. 

"The end.

Cope." 

Nooo No nun  nun un No, no.  You adhere to your OWN STANDARDS.  A nice reminder

"It's still unbelievable to see someone saying that a rule, decided, coded by devs and used for its real purpose, is a way to circumvent anything. There's not even a slight deviation from its intended use.

Well, whatever... "

There isn't even a slight deviation from Karma Bombings intended use according to you.  It's spelled out clear as day.  The developers coded it that and it's remained in the game since the beginning.   We can TRUST those words right?  YOU SAID THEM ;)

Double standards much?  Hyprocrit much?  Hmmmmm?

Read again my previous post. About how you acusing other people for what you are actualy. Come on you can be more mature than that.
But yet this is a sign. Want me to tell you what sign? You are loosen it. You are getin weak and you know it. Even if it on subconscious level.

Im disapointed. You seems to be just low level troll after all.

I'm not a fan of "dfs" being a rule that everybody - well "everybody" - likes or at least adheres to, as long as it's vague enough to be able to contest the outcome if need be, or change the rules on the spot, as we used to do when we were 5 or so.
I also don't like when devs have to code for common-sense (as it never works). All the ways a spot contesting can go... haywire are a good proof of that.
Lastly, I also don't like the "Go to Arsha!", "Go back to Season!", "Go play FF21!" or wutever other solutions proposed.

So I was looking for a solution that would please most... groups that play off-Arsha and that are usually complaining about the other group's behavior.

I don't play on Arsha,'cause I don't have the gear for that. But with so many places to grind for fun or treasure that are barely contested these days, I don't feel the need to go there anyway. 

Lastly, I still think that at least something has to be done about guildless karmabombers and the bad habit of mob-feeding. As they're the two sides of the same ugly coin.

Being an outlaw was part of the game. It kinda ended with Valencia though. Cus PA couldn't find a way to make it both, interesting and not joybreaking :) They're in luck players found ways to still have fun while red.

As for having the equalized gear while under the flag... It would definitely work, but then it'd give PA a free pass on making each grind zone meaningful for the gearscore it recommends.

A flag to alert both contender and owner of each other's presence would work nicely, but it'd upset the ppl that have fun hunting each other during the grind (with traps and all the tools). Then again, it would be useful since not everyone knows the geometries of each grind spot and it's quite often that, in those cases, someone explodes with a "WTF, dude! Didn't you see I was grinding here?!". 

Whelp, it is what it is. PA has many things that need addressing that are more important than this. And with the initial req of rearranging grind spots, they might as well just go ahead and rewrite the game in an engine that can keep up with today's standards :D

Was worth a try...

Yep, I said them, because they are true and logical. 

You can activate a clear rule allowing you to fight without karma loss : that's a guild war. You ACTIVATE it.

Meanwhile, what clear rule do you activate when you endlessly throw your character to be a nuisance? None. You simply hope to be boring enough to trigger the other player.

You're far too young to catch me with my own words buddy. Read, and learn from us what logic and facts are. 

Thanks for showing that you used up all of your bad faith arguments, you'll soon ressort to insults and get banned. Again. XD

They are in so far as you having an argument of merit. You simply are not going to control, penalty and risk free, grind spots on non Arsha servers. But you can create an alt with disposable gear and attempt it if you wish. Your argument will have as much merit as your willingness to participate in that exercise in futility. Have at it champ.

The end. Cope.

"Because there's no restriction in drop rates. Because dfs is not the only broken system. You keep pushing for a solution to one problem that would solve all the issues in the world, from broken loot system to world hunger."

i'm not pushing for a solution, i'm pushing against your suggestion to give power to the rich to bully the poor, because according to you the poor deserve to be nothing other than victims. 

"Name, war dec over spot (to circumvent the karma system), guildless karmabombing (to circumvent the karma system), mob-feeding (which is just utter trash behavior imo). I kept saying that, you kept hammering about how I favor the higher geared player. You're not deconstructing jack. You're just constantly twisting my words and flipping the narrative with literally one goal in mind. Griefing."

again and again i say how your suggestion does not solve war decs or mob feeding. sure, i'm griefing your suggestion, just as much as you are willing to grief and treat player with lower gear as subhuman so that a higher geared players can grind in piece without guildless karmabombers. congrats! you saved a millionaire's megachurch by taking money from public services. you did it! it only came at the cost of lives of people who can't survive without those services, but the megachurch owner cannot live without his 20th yacht, can they?

"All existing mechanics - that you sometimes defend, sometimes oppose, depending if it's an odd or even minute of the hour - are aiming to circumvent or abuse the karma system. War decs, mob-feeding, karmabombing. All. But they're good. Cus they're doing what you claim you don't like my proposal for trying to do."

did i ever say war decs are good? no, i only say gvg is intended and healthy for the game- a sentiment you agree with with your post on pages 7 "GvG over grind spot is all fine, on its own." and how your suggestion changes nothing with war dec no matter how much u say it does. do i ever say mob-feeding is good? no, just that it exist. did i ever say that karmabombing is good? no, only that karma exist as a mechanic to protect lower geared player from abuse. 

so what exactly is your grand plan here? cuz it sounds like you want implement another karma circumventing system that is reserved for the higher geared just so those pesky lowered geared player can't defend their spots regardless of any circumstance because clearly they are second class citizen compared to your noble class of higher geared players, just so they don't have to deal guildless karmabombers

"No, I don't. Stop putting things in my mouth please. I dislike bullies, irl, in-game or on the forums. Bullies like you ;) 
Cheers!"

I'll remind you that you started bantering first with trying to belittle my arguments by attacking my character back in page 4. don't dish if you can't take it. i'm more than willing to stoop down to your level.

Let's go over the facts and circumstances again, for anyone reading.

I started saying how this system can easily be abused by higher geared players on page 4. If you read the suggestion, you can easily see that this system allows a higher geared player to take any spot without reprecussions as after the first initial karma hit they can continually kill the lower geared player with no recourse. OP (Original Poster) denies that this is a way for higher geared player to kill lower geared player without karma loss of course.

Maybe it's unintended though? I tell OP that this is what will happen under his suggestion- lower geared players will be bullied out of every spot because they can no longer protect themselves with higher gear player being able to circumvent karma loss- on page 5 of the post

"also even if you say that this isn't "intended" for high gs players to circumvent the karma system.... and even if you actually don't mean it there are such things as unintended consequences, consequence that you as the poster and suggester are supposed to either explain why it won't be a problem (it will be) or include something in your suggestion to counter the consequence (you have not)"

And instead of answering or addressing the issue at allat all, he instead says-

"Could say that I'm rather trying to include everyone in the karma system, especially those that can circumvent the war dec system while abusing the karma one ;)"

the deflection here speaks more volume than an actual answer tbh.

After some back and forth with the OP, I questioned whether or not this system was designed for higher geared players to take advantage of lower geared players on page 5- "maybe cause the system isn't supposed to be for evenly matched players?"

To which OP replies on the same page- 

"Dfs as tool isn't often used by evenly matched players. My only dfs was 2 years ago vs a player ~100GS higher than me, at Pila (I was in pen Turubula he had pen Blackstar).  "

While this isn't the reality of the game since equally geared players do dfs and very often, this means that OP made this suggestion thinking that dfs is usually between a higher geared player and lower geared players with the clear result of a higher geared player acquiring the spot. 

To summarize from above- The suggestion was posted with OP thinking that dfs is a system used by a higher geared player to take a spot from a lower geared player that is completely outclassed, and it is designed so that the higher geared player faces no reprecussion and the lower geared player has no way to fight back.

This is also loosely supported by his quote on page 6 "Based on it, I always refused the duel and relocated - be it rotation, channel or activity" - As OP thinks dfs is used by a stronger player, he just doesn't bother when he is asked for dfs, and just leave because he thinks he will lose.

OP also has the following quote on page 6-

"you can't punish higher gear players for being funneled into low AP grind spots"

Here OP confirms his bias- OP thinks higher geared players are being punished by lower geared players existing in the spot, without consideration that lower geared players can also be victims.

The initial post was trying to fix war decs and mob feeding as well, but those are inconclusive at best as this basically does nothing to war decs (OP also deleted that portion from the post) and mob feeding will still exist under this system, so it leaves guildless karmabomber as the only thing this is trying to fix. 

I mean hell, congrats! this suggestion can definitely fix the issue of guildless karmabombers! the only sacrifice here is that low geared player can no longer defend themselves or their spot if someone with higher gear even just look at them, so worth it. lower geared players don't deserve anything anyways, higher geared players are being punished just by being near them! so what if lower geared players are usually the least committed to the games and usually new players that will just jump to another game? we gotta protect high geared players!

The suggestions to go to Arsha are absolutely appropriate.  What BETTER possible solution could there ever be to someone saying they WANT the ability to DEFEND their rotation or FIGHT FOR IT than a server litereally BUILT FOR THAT PURPOSE.

Some forum warriors are even running around the forums screaming VENDETTA and expecting that to REMOVE the Karma System so they can beat down players.  How there could there possibly be a better response than Go 2 Arsha ;)