so realistically this idea hinges on there being more restrictions on decs? because that should be the main point of your suggestion and not whatever this system is. if this system was put into the game as is then this realistically only perpetuates the "toxic pvp".

ngl this entire system just sounds like a roundabout way of removing karma loss completely from the game lol

I honestly love this idea, I feel like there's a lot of potential here. As far as I'm understanding, these flags would essentially function as placeable objects with an aura that buff/debuff any players who enter their radius, yeah? That seems more than feasible considering the placeable objects we currently have access to in Node Wars/Conquest. As to how that would affect server performance when used en masse? I'm sure that would have to be considered as well.

Either way, love the concept :) I'm going to throw out some wacky ideas on top of the ones OP has already laid out, mostly for fun ^-^

The Sensible Ideas:

- Flags should only be available at Node Managers of notable grind zones (probably most of the ones that appear in the Monster Zone UI), and would automatically become unusable upon leaving the radius of their parent node. This would avoid any potential griefing outside of the actual grind zone.

- Flags could be rented from said Node Managers for a set amount of contribution, halved if you have it connected to your node network. This would ensure that you could only have one flag in your inventory at any given time, but could use it as often as you'd like until it was returned (should be able to return it from your inventory without having to go back to the Node Manager).

- Flags would automatically be removed from the world and returned to inventory after leaving their radius for more than 5 minutes.

The Potentially Crazy Ideas:

- Defenders get their no-karma-loss buff only while within the radius of their flag, and I would argue that they should also be able to freely rez on spot after dying to PvP within the radius, up to three times. After the defender's third PvP death the flag is automatically destroyed and goes on cooldown, allowing the attacker to set up shop.

- Attackers receive double karma penalties when attacking a flag owner. It would have to be on attack, not kill, so that guilds couldn't just bully a single person out of their spot without fitting punishment.

Let the bullets fly~

Well, for starters, war decs and the bouts happening at the grind spots are intertwined. And, as I've mentioned before, the current "tradition", let's call it, of dfs is just a segway into more gratuitous war decs. 

Karma loss would be prevented, yes, making the game unfun for karmabombers. Period. And if, for you, "the game" equates to karmabombing, then you'd be 100% correct in your assessment. I did make a few tweaks to the initial proposal, to try and limit the abuse on it (not that I'm expecting such a thing to ever be implemented), since neither karmabombers, nor bullies, nor griefers would like it (and will just keep pointing fingers at each other as the reason they do what they do).

But let's revisit the arguments.

1. You get war dec'ed for refusing a duel.

2. You get war dec'ed for not having said "r".

3. You get war dec'ed for using potions during a duel.

4. You get war dec'ed if you refuse a rematch.

5. You get war dec'ed if the other player isn't satisfied with the outcome and intends to feed you to the mobs later down the line.

All of the above would be solved if there would be some clear rules on dfs and harsher requirements on war dec'ing, once the former are implemented - I mean, you can't make it hard to declare before you can find a way to deal with griefers and karmabombers.

This idea hinges on having a better system do contest a spot. Cus currently, the system is called war dec. Which, for people in guilds removes the karma loss completely. Keeping only guildless bozos safe from harm. Make fair for all, if you will. And also, prevent people from changing/enforcing their rules of engagement when dfs is about to take place.

If there are no debates over whether X or Y respected the other one's rules for dfs, if there is no way to avoid the dfs, except for maybe swapping channels or spots, if there's no constant risk of getting karmabombed, then there are less reason to declare. If there are less reasons to declare, than the requirements for sending a war dec can be increased. Fix both things.

So, still thinking this is designed to remove karma loss from the game? Why? In the business of karmabombing players? ;) and if so, isn't that also toxic pvp?

This is a spot claiming mechanic, not a workaround for karma. It just allows players to have some amount of insurance over their rotation, the attacker would still lose karma. (Unless I'm misunderstanding the intent)

Ding Ding Ding!!  We have a winner.

Yes, that's EXACTLY what the recommendation is.  To "roundabout" "circumvent" "exploit" the Karma system.  And of COURSE to AVOID Arsha at all costs.

I don't know what is worse the proposal to ruin the game by bypassing the protection system or these people trying to act ignorant of the fact that's what they want to do.

The suggestinon to FIX  War Decs is to implement the BROKEN and EXPLOITABLE aspect of ONE way declaration on the ENTIRE server with NO WAY to protect anyone.

Are they to scared to just suggest MAKING EVERY SERVER Arsha?

How is any intelligent discussion supposed to occur with people that:

A: WANT to fight over SPOTS

go to Arsha?

B: DON'T WANT to fight over SPOTS!

You don't understand!!! It's so complicated people will just come back again!!! (REFER TO POINT A)

My proposal is reasonable and fair.  I propose I lose 1 Karma point every PK.  See it's "limited" I can only kill 300,000 players with max karma.  It's not "unrestricted".  I put some lame caviat so it's totally different from removing karma or a "vendetta" against people WITHOUT any validation for it.

if attacker wins once he stops losing karma. in a clear gear, class, skill disadvantage this is a complete roundabout way to removing karma loss. 

if evenly matched then this system solves nothing with players just throwing their bodies on each other until they are both out of karma anyways.

i dont see how this will solve... any of the five arguments at all.

1. You get war dec'ed for refusing a duel.

        with the benefits of having the flag down, people will drop down a flag even if they will refuse any duels. 

2. You get war dec'ed for not having said "r".

        if someone would war dec you for not having said "r" then with or without this system they will still dec you regardless.             

              defender- "you attacked me/killed my flag without saying 'r' and killed me and my flag. dec sent" - likely result as killing someone or removing their flag means you can claim their spot in 1 minute

             attacker- "i just walked into the rotation and you killed me. dec sent" - likely result as theres no karma loss on defender part

3. You get war dec'ed for using potions during a duel.

        if someone doesn't like you using pots during a duel and will dec you, with or without the system they will dec you regardless. this applies to both attacker and defender.

4. You get war dec'ed if you refuse a rematch.

        if someone would war dec you for refusing a rematch, with or without the system they will dec you regardless. this applies to both attacker and defender

5. You get war dec'ed if the other player isn't satisfied with the outcome and intends to feed you to the mobs later down the line

        especially in an even fight where you trade kills, this system solves nothing. i killed you once, you come back killed me and killed my flag and we are back to before this ever existed and will dec you.

so again.... instead of this suggestion you should look into war dec restrictions because this just seems not useful at all without it, contrary to what you think.

You are not addressing the problem.  Lets use a REAL SITUATION that just happened.  I wanted to grind a spot and ALL THREE clan servers had people occupying it.

This led to a compete disaster.  I went to a private instance and ALL 4 of us just played the game the way we wanted.  This is INTOLERABLE.

Only 3 of at MOST should have been able to play.  Or maybe 2 out of the 4 would end up bickering, fighting over the spot, and trying to kick each other out.

That's CLEARLY a better solution.  This "everybody wins" mentality isn't good for gaming.  Clearly I should have been able to SCREAM VENDETTA and purge one of those players from THEIR SPOT.

It's the only thing that makes sense.

What you will NOT hear is any of these people telling the truth.

How about I was TO LAZY to bother switching channels so I thought I would just try to take this spot!!!!

People are to cowardly to just TELL THE TRUTH

THAT kind of attitude is really the catalyst for all of this.

1.  With the benefits of having the flag down, people will drop down a flag even if they will refuse any duels. 

     And then be unable to grind in a different spot because you can only have 1 flag up at a time.

2. If someone would war dec you for not having said "r" then with or without this system they will still dec you regardless.

     Unless, because of the system being in place, the war dec would no longer be that easy and cheap to send.

3. (Idem 2).

4. (Idem 2).

5. (Idem 2).
The above are arguments for declaring a war. Because something in the dfs part went wrong. Because the rules of dfs change based on the outcome and the attitude of the opponents.

You either refuse to understand - or pretend not to - that the defense for making war decs easy to send is because of how horrible contesting a spot can go. Fix the abuses on the latter and then tweak the former. 

For the n-th time. This isn't supposed to deal with overpowering opponents (say, going to grind centaurs after taking a break from trolls and stomping out everyone there). That issue can be solved with diminishing returns on loot, similar to how grinding lvl 20 mobs on a lvl 60 works.

If the attacker doesn't stop losing karma, you'll be more happy to throw yourself at him/her, in your underwear. And he/she will be more than happy to declare on you, so they can teabag the karmabombing out of you, unless, ofc you roam alone, to deny your victims that way out. As you're always arguing from a position of weakness (in terms of player stats) and try to maintain your secret weapons while at it, it leaves this feeling... that I can't really put into words... ;)

I will say again, for the last time. The intention for this is to make "dfs" an official tool with clear rules of engagement and to deal away with all the excuses (dfs made-up rules) and reasons (karmbombing and killstealing) for keeping war decs spammable. Not to give anyone a pve-only spot. Not prevent high gearscore players for turning your character into soil fertilizer. On top of these, having the flag system will finally strip guildless players of their invulnerability-to-wardecs cloak.

Win-win for everyone! Except for a few, select... categories of adventurers, of course. Which the current systems can't handle and are, as such, immune to the consequences of their actions.

If you thought the goal of my suggestion is to prevent spots from being contested while you're grind, you are horribly wrong. It's not supposed to ensure you can grind undisturbed till you get bored or uninstall.
Also, if evenly matched and both want to grind, they will not do that.  And what if they both run out of karma? Don't you run out of karma now, in that scenario? Unless you declare, of course... or, say... karmabomb without being wardec-able... Suspicious, ngl.

I love most of the ideas up here. 

On the topic of The Potentially Crazy Ideas:

- the no-karma-loss buff would function similarly to the buff you get in Elvia Calph spots, when you drop that glowy ball. A 5-10 seconds buff that constantly reapplies itself on cooldown, as long as you're within the radius of the flag. 

- free rez at the flag could work, similar to the NW one, I guess, but then the flag should be destroyable. Give it a hefty amount of hitpots and add a notification similar to the mount taking damage (hah! Maybe even have a personalizable cammo outfit for the flag that you could buy for pearls, to help it blend in the environment?) 

It makes me think back to the Aion's kisks (the personal res spot) we were using when going through the rifts and the hunt for the kisks was somewhat of a priority for the opponents, so as to prevent us from rezing on their turf.

- as I kept saying, I had mostly positive experiences while grinding, so I'll have to take your word for it that such things could happen, as having a blob bullying someone out of their spot. In which case, that 2x karma penalty on attacking seems reasonable.

As for The Sensible Ideas:

- I'd keep the flag acquisition tied to silver, so as to not put an extra burden on the player's CP pool. I mean, I don't invest often in the nodes I grind in and I'm always barely scraping by in terms of CPs availability. It would also make it easier for the flag to be attackable and destroyed.

- You could have 2-3 types of flags you could buy from the node managers (1 at a time), with different amount of hitpoints. Should be more brainstorming on how flag-placement would be conducted... Iframe while at it? cancelable? how long the animation? can you be interrupted by damage while planting the flag? etc.

Good ideas overall, thanks! I'mma wait a bit longer before editing the OP.