Or abusing positive Karma the aggressor has NOTHING to lose and the other player is penalized?

WHY wasn't that your example?

Haven't you picked up on the narratives and dishonesty all over the forums?  Guildless would only be used to point to someone karma bombing.

I have talked to multiple people who have been on forums , most have come to the same conclusion who are apart of the PvX community(who you keep calling pvp only players) the issue is the person comes into the rotation an decides its theirs an drops gear after removing mobs intentionally when you flag , the aggressor has far far to much power with zero repercussions, yes there is a issue with some lifeskillers being pked an i believe allowing all life skills to be done under level 50 is essential. This leaves grind spots to be fought over  and for the aggressor to not be full advantage over spots.

"GvG to circumvent karma loss is just as much a scum behavior as karmabombing and mob-feeding are. And I'm not really convinced that PA's design has them as intended systems."

Not everyone on the forums are willing to admit those obvious statements ;)  In fact SOME think you can just yell VENDETTA and then circumvent the Karma System.

Others think you can just plant flags and ignore the karma system.  

That is a dishonest political garbage answer.  You are intentionally pushing a narrative.

There are TWO nearly identical situations:

A: The player enters someone's rotation and hopes the player will go red.  (Lets correct one of your LIES here).  "to much power with zero repercussions".  NO end game players are going to attempt to just PK you EVER.  Lets make that CLEAR now and don't lie about it.  What will occur is an attempt to MOB FEED the player.  Thus unless you are specifically setup against that, there are HUGE penalties.  So stop spreading false information about that.

B: The player enters someone else's rotation and tries to mob feed them.  (This IS NOT part of your narrative and thus is NEVER the example provided.  You want to pretend it doesn't exist while it's pretty much the same result as the first.

You could improve your arguments by being honest and not trying to focus ONLY on the karma bomb situation.  It's a dishonest way to push propaganda that tries to create rules in favor for ONE side while not addressing the other.

Right. I also  never talked about mob feeding. Since that would be another issue to be sorted which i have said in the past they sort the two main issues they can then go on to sort it out by making there be no crystals being broken if a person has hit you . Neither loss to exp.

I guess that would be a much easier solution than revolutionizing and actually coding for the entire dfs suggestion, if they can also find a way to deal with Jack's ilk...

Maybe along with the other issue, which is mid-game grindspots being absolute trash in terms of rewards, to the point where you can get maybe 50% of the value a 280 AP spot has to offer compared to grinding a 140 AP spot. Two times the gearscore requirements, half the rewards. And that easily ropes players into griefing gearlets. Since griefing PA over bad grind spots loot is not an option.

GvG over grind spot is all fine, on its own. We were pvp'ing over rez spots in Aion and we were having fun, assuming pvp players would answer the help cries of questers left without npcs to interact with. Using GvG as a way to circumvent karma loss, abusing karma system by stripping for your opponent and mob-feeding are all pretty nasty side effects of the way the game systems are designed.

So fine, don't make dfs a feature, but deal away with karmabombing, mob-feeding and fix the god damn grind spots to better reflect the gearscore requirements (and then maybe use the same AP caps that are in place to dictate at which point stuff stops dropping :grin:)

Well I can't agree with a system that would not be a divertizing feature then but clearly that would just allow to avoid karma neg when killing.

A feature, yes, it's entertaining and makes the game more interesting with various contents.

A new global system that would allow any invader to take a rotation taken, ruining the farm and buffs of the guys there, everywhere, with no "safe zones" to avoid that, I can't agree with it. It would make farming impossible!

I still let my upvote on your idea, but clearly as the intention of creating new content and not as replacing the actual karma system.

Invaders who come and claim "dfs", if the dfs is refused by the guys already grinding there, there's no reason why the invaders should avoid the lost of karma then. They wanna come and kill so they face the consequences. Logic.

So once again: I agree with your idea if it's a new divertising ponctual content, but not as a systematic challenge to win a spot everywhere.

Also, it would be systematically a loss of money and buffs for the guys already grinding who would have to cut their farm with no possibility to get their buffs and money spent / wasted back.

It's a loss / loss and waste of time, money, buffs, everything!

Here is a little secret no one knows about.  Shhhh don't tell anyone.

It's impossible to Karma Bomb someone that can just enter a Private Instance.

Also, think twice before you judge.  The reason I don't give a damn about Pearl Abyss or it's customer base is due to literally 1,000's of players trying to DFS/mob feed.  Pearl Abyss allowed this cess pool of a culture to spread through the game to the point that people think they are entitled to steal your spot and you can't refuse.

After dealing with garbage year after year I don't have any respect for how this game is managed or it's customer base.  It's a decent action based combat system, but other than that it's poor quality across the board.

Here is another secret people don't talk about.  Pearl Abyss isn't just incompetent.  Everything they do is layers of terrible design which leads to exploits on top of exploits.  Are you aware there are CC's in the game that do virtually zero dmg even if with 0 DP.  You stack that kind of garbage design on top of the mob feeding issue and you have serious issues.

Pearl Abyss's incompetence doesn't stop there.  You can FAIL grabs for example and NOT even flag because you didn't innitiate an attack.  Then when you get a CC you can just run away and the opponent will never catch you.  But that's not enough.  You stack that on top of a zerker that has passives to ensure their grapple lands and make a crystal set to ensure you don't fail.  AND you can move opponents around.  AND you can hold them in place taking hits from mobs.

These people HAVE NO CLUE how hard it is to even Karma Bomb anyone with these absurdly broken mechanics.  Never forget Pearl Abyss can't do anything right and their customers have to deal with the ramifications of all the garbage they create.

For once you were on-topic, so yay to that, to start with! 

But then...

This happened...

More on topic, if I wanna play completely alone, I pick up a single player game. I exclusively use Marni's Realm when, for some f**ked up reason, I just cannot not grind that particular spot, at that particular time. Regardless if on season or not. 
Also, Jack, most important thing is, I'm trying to propose this system to deal away with all sorts of grievances, from (especially) karmabombing to mob-feeding. 

Lastly, you know what is even harder than karmabombing? declaring on a guildless bomber. It's impossible, one might say. And that guildless bomber is abusing the system probably more than anyone else. This activity, in my eyes, is the one that bypasses all checks and balances the devs tried (and failed) to put in place. The legal cousin of cheating ;)

Entice players to grind their appropriate gearscore spots (which PA is not) and only then prevent players from overpowering their opponents in much lower tier spots, by tying the AP cap to the drop chance (which PA will never do, or just roll back on it if they fail to make mid-game spots worthwhile). Lastly, deal away with xp and crystal loss (or fine tune the damn things, cus grinding a 180M/h spot and losing 3B worth of crystals - not to mention days worth of xp - to mob feeding is just dumb). Then, in an ideal world, a lot of the issues related to contesting spots will lessen, if not vanish entire. Sure, some people will still choose to karmabomb over putting up a good fight.

Before anyone jumps to point out Fairy's Tears exist and that Elion can bless us, yes, I know. Still dumb.

So there's this option, probably easier to deal with than creating the new system I'm suggesting. But, in both cases, who'd be left to create low resolution, NSF outfits?

Are you still talking about me?