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OPENING DEBATE ON EVASION AND DR
Jan 21, 2023, 08:55 (UTC)
3811 33
Last Edit : Jan 22, 2023, 08:28 (UTC)
# 21
On: Jan 21, 2023, 08:55 (UTC), Written by Drakanoid

MUSA , Lahn , Maegus , Corsair , Hashashin , Sage , Kuno , Ninja , (STRIKER AND MISTYC) 
What do these classes have in common? Yes. They are all evasion coincidence? IDK

What does an EVA user need?

USER EVA:
Distortion TET x2
Sicil PEN 
Centauro PEN depending on who you face -->  Turos TET
Ring of crescent X2 
Gloves c9
Boots C9
Kutum

It's all an Evasion user needs to be able to counter the DR user written above 

I don´t know what game you are playing but i get 3 skilled though FG from alot of classes even through i have c20 evasion + tet fallen god + defensive set up. Evasion countering DR user with c9 XD bro when did you play this game the last time. Two years ago?

Also there was never a problem with dr vs Evasion. It´s either you build offensive or defensive not you build dr or evasion.

The true problems are

  - broken class modifier which haven´t be touched for years (there are 30%+ damage diffrences between some classes)

  - and the never ending damage powercreep ( simply put PA constantly damage buff classes for years without buffing their tankyness)

If these two problems would be addressed (tldr: dr and evasion would work how they were intented). then it´s going Evasion or DR is more like a choice between an offenisive playstyle ( tldr: you want to kill you opponent as fast as possible) or defensive playstyle ( tldr: you like to play your class more passive/reactivly).

Last Edit : Jan 22, 2023, 12:28 (UTC)
# 22
On: Jan 22, 2023, 08:19 (UTC), Written by SeedofYggdrasil

I don´t know what game you are playing but i get 3 skilled though FG from alot of classes even through i have c20 evasion + tet fallen god + defensive set up. Evasion countering DR user with c9 XD bro when did you play this game the last time. Two years ago?

Also there was never a problem with dr vs Evasion. It´s either you build offensive or defensive not you build dr or evasion.

The true problems are

  - broken class modifier which haven´t be touched for years (there are 30%+ damage diffrences between some classes)

  - and the never ending damage powercreep ( simply put PA constantly damage buff classes for years without buffing their tankyness)

If these two problems would be addressed (tldr: dr and evasion would work how they were intented). then it´s going Evasion or DR is more like a choice between an offenisive playstyle ( tldr: you want to kill you opponent as fast as possible) or defensive playstyle ( tldr: you like to play your class more passive/reactivly).

You are a witch, defense not work on that, so that is expected, but that is not the eva or DR's fault, that is a balance issue. DR on the otherhand do work on op's class forexample, he just don't know how to play.

244 4634
Lv 63
Hnnie
Last Edit : Jan 23, 2023, 00:15 (UTC)
# 23
On: Jan 22, 2023, 08:19 (UTC), Written by SeedofYggdrasil

I don´t know what game you are playing but i get 3 skilled though FG from alot of classes even through i have c20 evasion + tet fallen god + defensive set up. Evasion countering DR user with c9 XD bro when did you play this game the last time. Two years ago?

Also there was never a problem with dr vs Evasion. It´s either you build offensive or defensive not you build dr or evasion.

The true problems are

  - broken class modifier which haven´t be touched for years (there are 30%+ damage diffrences between some classes)

  - and the never ending damage powercreep ( simply put PA constantly damage buff classes for years without buffing their tankyness)

If these two problems would be addressed (tldr: dr and evasion would work how they were intented). then it´s going Evasion or DR is more like a choice between an offenisive playstyle ( tldr: you want to kill you opponent as fast as possible) or defensive playstyle ( tldr: you like to play your class more passive/reactivly).

How funny when you put it like that. That sounds like a well-balanced game. I wonder what you've been playing these 2 years. You tell me that there is no problem between DR and Evasion. I wonder if you are a PVE user and you have never addressed these issues before and only comment to draw attention. The truth is I don't know anymore. You've never run into a 279 AP striker and 420 dp full evasion and full damage human right? Musa full evasion 420 dp + 269 ap full damage human right?  I don't even have to answer this anymore

Last Edit : Jan 23, 2023, 00:20 (UTC)
# 24
On: Jan 22, 2023, 12:28 (UTC), Written by CatDK

Eres un brujo, la defensa no funciona en eso, así que eso es de esperar, pero eso no es culpa de eva o de DR, eso es un tema de equilibrio. DR, por otro lado, trabaja en la clase de op, por ejemplo, simplemente no sabe cómo jugar.

You are a tank class that has no block like Valk or Warrior, Guardian or Nova. It only depends on Super Armor to keep you in the middle of a battle without falling. Tell me how you would do in that situation to make tank with 420 dp full dr. to see tell me how you do? I am often disgusted by BDO players. They have DR classes with Full iframe and they get blind and don't know that there are other classes that don't have iframes and they don't have a shield. 

NOTE: Did you know that in this game the assassins do the role of tank better than the same tank users who go full dr? I wonder why people have such a hard time realizing something that is no longer secret. They talk that the dr is OP when I test with 656 of dr with 420 of dp and I see how 277 of ap is enough to kill you with 1 complete combo. however killing a user of 420 + 1450 EVA takes minimum 301 AP + 1000 accuracy. So simple and more than here what they comment is pure ignorance

Last Edit : Jan 23, 2023, 17:07 (UTC)
# 25
On: Jan 21, 2023, 08:55 (UTC), Written by Drakanoid

I want to open a rather objective debate. I hope you will comment on coherent things. Although I am 100% sure that they have known about this problem for a long time.
There is something that has bothered me for a while now. it is due to the dirty practices of Pearl Abys to promote their new classes and the classes that generate the most money.

MUSA , Lahn , Maegus , Corsair , Hashashin , Sage , Kuno , Ninja , (STRIKER AND MISTYC) 
What do these classes have in common? Yes. They are all evasion coincidence? IDK

I am a Drakania Succ and I will not go into detail about the succ since that would be another topic. But this really horrible for PVP 1v1 and massive, those who are not Drakania Succ will not understand what I am talking about. But this issue is about Pearl Abys not respecting the roles in this game. I have seen that the murderous classes play the role of tank better than the characters themselves, who are called Tank. I am Drakania and Main Valk. I have 640 DR full c20 with 420 dp. It cannot be possible for me to be erased from a single skill or maximum 2. The Ranger I eliminate 2 skill. The maegus not to mention. Muses of 3 skill. you know why? simply because Pearl Abys has been concerned about giving away a lot of Ap in this game harming DR users. every AP point they give away is a counter for DR. Every perfume, elixir, food buff etc is a counter for dr. how can you reduce all the damage that currently exists in this game? there is a huge difference between EVA and REDUCE. 

The dr I dare say that even this cap to 600 of dr. because after you pass the 600 you no longer notice any difference. So it is impossible for a class that is supposed to be made to withstand blows to be the class that least holds up in this game. But comes a muse DP meme with Full Evasion 1400 + with Crystal Full Damage Human and does much more than a supposed Drakania or Valk full dr full tank. Really, the injustice in this game is increasingly blatant. it's basically like making fun of the effort that DR users have to make in order to have a team higher than 700 gs. So that a muse or maegu or evasion user with just over 277 comes and kills you without any difficulty. and I know what they said. With 277 it is impossible. well, yes, if possible my estimate. With home buff and elixir you can kill a full DR user of 420+ dp and 620 DR. Not to mention, DR's build is far more expensive than Evasion's. We need 3 offhand. we need PEN jewelry of accuracy. Pano PEN jewelry to compensate for the loss of AP with the narc. 


USER DR:
Lunar PEN vs eva --> vs dr Laytem Pen
Turos PEN vs eva --> vs dr Valtarra Pen
Ring of crescent PEN X2 vs eva --> vs dr class Ronaros Pen x2
Narc PEN x2
3 Offhand kutum c15  , nouver c15 , Ladothan PEN c20
Gloves and Boots c20 

this is what a DR user needs to be able to make a decent PVP. For every circumstance there is a jewelry store and that name there is what I have

What does an EVA user need?

USER EVA:
Distortion TET x2
Sicil PEN 
Centauro PEN depending on who you face -->  Turos TET
Ring of crescent X2 
Gloves c9
Boots C9
Kutum

It's all an Evasion user needs to be able to counter the DR user written above 

I didn't write this post with personal opinions. For that I tested with various equipment that I have. I don't ask for Nerf to be given to evasion because that's never going to happen. But if at least respect the efforts of DR users and give a buff or take away the DR cap we have , It's horrible to walk into an RBF and not be able to do anything because the only classes you'll see are Musa, Maegus, Ninjas, Lahn, Striker and Mytyc. I basically don't enjoy RRP like I used to. It's more frustrating than fun. 
I really hope that this is read by a team of Pearl Abys and they start thinking a little bit like thinking human beings that they are and see that what they do to the DR is an injustice. They say that with the DR gloves they're going to take out, they're going to fix this. But that's a lie. Even if you have 640 DR you are not going to solve the abysmal amount of damage that you yourselves gave to people.  I know that evasion users will never admit this and lie to themselves saying that evasion is not broken. It's just that they're pro player. but there is no merit in walking in the middle of the battle trusting your EVA and applying grab fruit.

I have posted about this very subject on another thread.

We have several issues going on within BDO that is beyond a simple DP and the answers I am going to give are not going to be well received.

Obviously the easy one is to start from the reboot and the continued updates over the past year. These changes were mixed received in some cases they broke the class making it super strong (succ zerker for example). In others the class is less than worthless than previous (tamer is a example).

These changes from reboot made classes faster, increase attack speed, movement speed and over all damage leaving class modifiers untouched. All of the above has lead to the current meta of super high end damage at lower Ap levels not to mention the above with the changes in crypt of resting thoughts allow people to grind there with the right gear and class as well as opening ash forest so players have things like Pen Debo's and pen debo belts.

The above has lead to the next issue, 

Change in crystal set up this is absolutely needed BUT has lead to some really high end damage. This is where your DR build problem comes in, Dr builds on non evasion classes like warrior,valk for example are staple of the class but in all that to c20 armor even tet FG there is not enough evasion in the overall % from add ons and gear to bypass damage from even the highest evasion build I.E. -25 accuracy from leaburs so when you get hit your taking 100% damage from 100% hit rate this has lead to players dropping an extra ~50ap AND green offhands for the extra 10% special attack damage. unless your full dp meme your gonna take massive damage.

I also main succ valk and am c20 armor c19 nouver, tri fallen god helm and chest. I get 4 skilled by a 309 awakened hash at 421dp with above crystal set up and now with hash boosted movement I can no longer keep up valk doesn't have the movement.

Currently with meta a DR build is no longer viable.. so I switch to evasion and it is currently doing better untill players make a simple change in accuracy with yet another green offhand and I am back to square 1 Green offhands need a massive nerf at this point even removing a single gem slot won't change anything. We need to remove all gem slots from green AND WHITE (militia offhand). As well as nerf heavily the bonus stats for evasion and accuracy.

As I said this is no longer a DP DR issue this IS now a modifier between classes issue damage needs to go up for PVE but Pvp we could use a change in class modifiers to correct the over all damage.

Then PA needs to do a long hard look at direction of this game as players start topping 700 gs there is a massive lack of content in game and the NW changes to 80% capped is a terrible change.

Last Edit : Jan 30, 2023, 02:25 (UTC)
# 26
On: Jan 23, 2023, 16:58 (UTC), Written by ReconKangas

I have posted about this very subject on another thread.

We have several issues going on within BDO that is beyond a simple DP and the answers I am going to give are not going to be well received.

Obviously the easy one is to start from the reboot and the continued updates over the past year. These changes were mixed received in some cases they broke the class making it super strong (succ zerker for example). In others the class is less than worthless than previous (tamer is a example).

These changes from reboot made classes faster, increase attack speed, movement speed and over all damage leaving class modifiers untouched. All of the above has lead to the current meta of super high end damage at lower Ap levels not to mention the above with the changes in crypt of resting thoughts allow people to grind there with the right gear and class as well as opening ash forest so players have things like Pen Debo's and pen debo belts.

The above has lead to the next issue, 

Change in crystal set up this is absolutely needed BUT has lead to some really high end damage. This is where your DR build problem comes in, Dr builds on non evasion classes like warrior,valk for example are staple of the class but in all that to c20 armor even tet FG there is not enough evasion in the overall % from add ons and gear to bypass damage from even the highest evasion build I.E. -25 accuracy from leaburs so when you get hit your taking 100% damage from 100% hit rate this has lead to players dropping an extra ~50ap AND green offhands for the extra 10% special attack damage. unless your full dp meme your gonna take massive damage.

I also main succ valk and am c20 armor c19 nouver, tri fallen god helm and chest. I get 4 skilled by a 309 awakened hash at 421dp with above crystal set up and now with hash boosted movement I can no longer keep up valk doesn't have the movement.

Currently with meta a DR build is no longer viable.. so I switch to evasion and it is currently doing better untill players make a simple change in accuracy with yet another green offhand and I am back to square 1 Green offhands need a massive nerf at this point even removing a single gem slot won't change anything. We need to remove all gem slots from green AND WHITE (militia offhand). As well as nerf heavily the bonus stats for evasion and accuracy.

As I said this is no longer a DP DR issue this IS now a modifier between classes issue damage needs to go up for PVE but Pvp we could use a change in class modifiers to correct the over all damage.

Then PA needs to do a long hard look at direction of this game as players start topping 700 gs there is a massive lack of content in game and the NW changes to 80% capped is a terrible change.

First time I hear a coherent and intelligent comment. because all I've read are stupid comments saying DR is fine. that only skill and dexterity are needed , When they play a Valk or a Drakania Succ in massive with Dr. Ahi they will understand. Those of evasion do not want to understand that evasion is very, too much above that Dr. It is ridiculous how superior evasion is vs Dr. It even touches the point of the unfair

Last Edit : Jan 30, 2023, 08:15 (UTC)
# 27

I don't see a big problem here. Yes, DR could be buffed a little, but that's about it.

You always have to remember that full AP counters full DR, so someone who runs full DR should still die to someone running full AP. Same with evasion. Full acc counters full evasion, so someone who has max acc should be able to easily kill someone with full evasion.

The problem here is that some classes have broken passives that makes, especialls evasion, very strong and gives them the ability to run only some defensive gear and still do lots of dmg. This should not be possible. Someone who runs a hybrid build should not be able to kill someone running a full dp build while also being very tanky themselves.

2 131
Lv Private
AZzajana
Last Edit : Jan 30, 2023, 12:46 (UTC)
# 28

That makes no sense. A full AP player should not be able to kill a full DR player and full DR shouldn't be able to do damage to anyone. 

Last Edit : Jan 30, 2023, 13:05 (UTC)
# 29
On: Jan 30, 2023, 12:46 (UTC), Written by Vanraven

That makes no sense. A full AP player should not be able to kill a full DR player and full DR shouldn't be able to do damage to anyone. 

Of course he should be. A full dmg glass cannon build should be able to kill a tank build. It's similar to rock-paper-scissors. 
ap counters dr -> eva counters ap -> acc counters eva -> dr counters acc.

The problem is when you can build enough ap vs dr while still having enough acc to deal with eva. That's when offensive becomes too strong and you don't need to adapt your build.
Or when you can get enough ap/acc while also stacking a defensive trait, meaning you are tanky while dealing tons of dmg. Those things should not be possible.

The thing is, in bdo there is no real reason to build tons of dp except to be a cc-bot for pvp. That's why pretty much everyone will go for a dmg build maybe with a little bit of dp in there.

2 131
Lv Private
AZzajana
Last Edit : Jan 30, 2023, 14:11 (UTC)
# 30

Once again, it makes no sense. If a full glass build kills a tank build then what does it do to non tank builds?  The most interesting thing is you try to separate evasion builds from dr builds. But they are exactly the same, both are tank builds they just go about mitigating damage in different ways. But the entire purpose is the same, to MITIGATE damage. 

A full glass build should not be able to solo a tank build. On the opposite end, tank builds this is including eva should not be able to damage anyone. The entire point of a tank build in any pvp game is to be able to withstand damage on the front lines. If they can't do this then its a failure. 

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