Perhaps, but it is also objectively true. As I said it is more aimed at the developer than the biased player base which greatly benefits from it more so than those that don't not by mere coincidence because the developer has made far more classes that benefit from this unreasonable skill than classes that don't, so it is reasnable to expect severe bias from the playerbase and that is what I am here to expose.

I mean of course, if you play a class like witch or wizard then I believe you that its not that difficult when your class has a skill that can do an AOE CCs with multiple ticks within a timeframe, then of course it will hit that microscopic timeframe that the grab has where it is unprotected that no human could react to but by mere chance. It is just a skill that autospams CC on every game tick around you. Not all classes have that luxury though, nor is it the the ideal solution and much less an argument to excuse the existence of a grab the way they currently are, with a humanly unreactable timeframe of unprotectedness. I mean some classes like sorc were temporarily given such a kind of CC, if anyone remembers it was the core proposed for cartian's nightmare which only made it to global labs, which would modify the skill to cast a CC on every game tick just as witch/wizard presently can. But the pearl-clutching was so huge that it never made it out of global labs... It's funny how some classes get away with these things and others don't.. I have many such examples of this.

Here I agree partially. No grabs should have long range (let alone exist even as melee), for example lahns ranged grab. You don't even have to aim some of them to connect! meanwhile some classes won't land any damage unless they pixel-perfectly aim their attack. But ranged grabs are just an aberration of something more basic, the instantaneous melee grab, that should not exist in pvp. The casting window of the grab should be made far bigger, to be humanly reactable to, and an actual punishment should be given to the grab caster if the grabee reacts to it in time, for example punish the grabber with a knockdown, this way the grab will be high reward and high risk as opposed to what it is currently which is low risk high reward. But again, classes that do not have the benefit of multi-tick AOE CC do not have this option to counter a dash into grab, which I may add for some classes is also fully protected and next to instantaneous and humanly impossible to react to.

I disagree with this. Most grabs are already melee range. While ranged grabs are definitely the biggest abomination flavor of the grab family, their melee counterparts are by no means any more skillful. With some of them as I already stated, being able to be casted instantaneously after an also unriactable dash or SA, and even from invisibility as ninja/kuno can. There is no other solution but the eradication of grabs as we know them.

I'm sure no one expected you to mention my class as being the cause of the problem. what a surprise. /sarcasm

Once again, as I said, it is not sorc but ninja/kuno who presently have the best defense against grabs, due to their invisibility skill. You appear to have unresolved pvp frustrations with my class and you are taking out your frustrations on me. lol

How beautifully you destroyed your own argument with your sentence which I highlighted in red! Yes if you don't preemptively and skillfully use SA then you might indeed be in danger of getting cc'd by a fast class such as sorc, ninja, kuno, warrior, etc. Do you know what goes through SA? without any skillfulness? GRAB! And once again we are back to square one, the grab is the only skill in the game that counters everything and that has no counter. Your SA works against sorc because she has no grab, that wont save you from a ninja and other fast classes with a grab! If grab is so irrelevant to you then let's grant it to all classes, according to your logic it should not change anything, right? We both know every grab apologist trembles at the mere suggestion of a sorc with a grab, and yet we have had sorcs with grabs for years now, they are kunoichis, ninjas, and lahns.

On the contrary, ANY CLASS THAT DOES NOT HAVE A GRAB HAS ALL THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT GRABS. I will be the first one to ask for grab for Musa, Maehwa, Dark Knight, Witch, Wizard (succ), and all other classes without a grab! Each and everyone of them has every right to complain and not be lectured by those who have long ago rerolled to or started on a class which does have a grab. Playes who have moved from grabless classes to one with a grab see a gigantic new world of possibility they never saw without a grab and it's no accident, no other skill in BDO has such a low skill ceiling, such low risk and high reward, so predominantly favors the one that has it, than the grab skill.

Lol, it's not even about reaction time. You can compare character animation with a video editor. Sorceress teleport & attack is equal to one skill for other class. Basically Sorceress get instant free back attack hit. 

Sorceress is broken af. She can teleport next to a player running in a straight line & her area of attack is large enough to land the back attack hit.  

Okay lets try to get back on topic and dispense with class comparisons. What we are talkung about here is grabs and wether they are or aernt overpowered in their current form. If they are, what should be done about it.

I think grabs are indeed on the strong side as it is a CC that can pierce 2 of the 3 protected states in the game. (SA,FG, and I-Frames.)

A class with a grab has access to a more reliable and truly easier time landing a CC on their opponent that can lead to an instant kill combo just like any other cc in the game.  I think that this is the main problem everyone has with grabs. The same reward as any other harder to land CC but with a much higher likelyhood of landing since each class now has a much much smaller set of options for avoiding it.

Personally I love grabs, as I think they are both flavorful and cool, and have an important job countering classes with improoved blocks or classes that have an abundance of SA to cycle with. The problem isnt the grab existing, its the reward that the grab leads too. I dont think a single grab should lead to instant death. If you land a grab you should need to continue pursuit and land another CC or maybe get in a good SA trade for the kill after that. Or maybe slowly wearing down a strong defensive strategy by landing grab a few times to eventually get the kill.

My original suggestion was simply have grabs consume the entire CC limit so your combo opportunity off a grab is much shorter resulting in less damage being done with the huge benefit that this is a change that would be extreemly easy to implement, as they devs need only change a single value to try it out.

<sarcasm>Yes, Sorceress is the most powerful class ever made. Sorceress can CC you thought your SA and through your FG. Running away from sorc is not an option since she is by far the fastest moving class in the game. Every territory war, RBF, AOS, is just nothing but sorcs everywhere. On twitch it's nothing but sorc streamers, especially the top PVP streamers! Sorc is the most rerolled to class of all time, everyone is so tired of having to reroll from their favorite class onto sorc just to gain that unmatchable edge in PVP that sorc grants. Every reroller to the FOTM class is currenlty playing sorc. If you say sorc three times in front of a mirror, one will iframe behind you and kill you with her scythe.</sarcasm>

The double standard you use is just too funny. Sorceress, the class that approaches you at snail-pace! inch by inch! That you can almost sip a cup of tea as you see her inching towards you from render distance. No mention of a lahn that can fly in, sometimes not even rendering properly on her approach because BDO can't accurately sync object in mid-air, dive in and CC you, even grab you! No mention of ninja/kuno, who can approach you from invisible state to cc and grab you without you ever seeing it coming. No mention of a Berserker that can do a super-speed run-in towards you while fully superarmored and instant-grab you. No, it's the slowest-moving class in the game that is the problem here, the one without even a grab, the one that you can basically out-sprint to avoid, the one that yours truly plays, whichever that may be! :)

I think those are good suggestions. But I would go farther to balance that abomination of a skill which is the grab. I don't feel like hitting a CC limit by using grab would be enough since once the grab is landed it often doesn't take a lot to just blast the enemy's hp down to 0 even without followup CC's. I am speaking of course about high-end gear here since this doesn't apply in AOS. But even if it doesn't kill the enemy, the mere fact of doing essentially free undeserved damage even if it doesn't kill the enemy is still highly unfair and undeserved, and will likely end up in victory for the grabber anyway. This is why I don't think changing the CC limit for grabs would change much. Grabs would still remain high/medium reward and low risk.

But I have various suggestions that can address the problem with grabs across all gear levels. I am of the idea that it should not go through SA or FG to begin with, it should not be a joker card that will work against anything, something like that should not exist in pvp to begin with. But alternatively, if it does go through SA/FG then it should be made like in other games, where instantaneously casting grabs dont get the benefit to combo off them, so BDO could implement this by also giving an ap/accuracy debuff to the person that lands the grab so that they do severely less damage with their skills. Something like a simultaneous -50%AP and -50% accuracy debuff to the grab caster for like say 6-7 seconds. This is an example of a good tradeoff balance to a grab, were the enemy gets interrupted from their skill but it's not an instant win button for the grab caster. This would turn grab into a low risk low reward skill.

A solution I like too is make classes without a grab fully immune to grabs. Now that would be a proper way to balance those that have grabs vs those that don't. Grab then becomes just another skill for those who have it and don't have it alike, distributing the unfairness equally among all classes.

Another way that is sort of my favorite bc of how satisfying it would be to watch, is make every grab have a casting with an obvious animation of say one full second or 1.5 secs, and if the enemy reacts to the grab on time, either by dodging it or by some new counter skill to grab like grab-break, then the grabber gets the tables turned on him and it's the grabber himself that gets self-CC'd by means of a knockdown. This would make grab still high reward but high risk.

We could also give grabs to every class. this is my least favorite since I think grab is super anti-competittive and should not exist in it's current form. I much prefer the option of just making grab not go through CC and SA, i.e. turn it into a low risk low reward skill. This is probably the easiest solution to implement for the developer, requireing the least effort.

What cannot be overstated though is that something needs to change with grabs in BDO, it cannot go on existing in its current state.

Uh..  Lets try to keep our aims realistic. If you really just want to vent that grabs are op please feel free to use this website instead. https://screamintothevoid.com/

Grabs aernt going anywhere. Classes without grabs are not going to be given blanket immunity. They aernt going to make grabs 1.5 second casted skills that make you fall over. This is some zany, loony tunes dumb shit.

Try to collect your thoughts, look at the view from a grab classes's perspective and try to make some suggestions that aernt a complete waste of time

Just like every other time the grab topic gets discussed or someone screams out that it "MUST BE REMOVED" and is "BLATANTLY OVERPOWERED AND REQUIRES NO SKILL" the only thing that really needs to be said is that grabs existing is not the issue whatsoever, the overabundance of superarmor protections is the real core issue and makes it so that the game is played in a way in which grabs are the only option to reliably get a CC anymore - this exact thing is also very apparent when looking at the current day state of sorc, the OPs supposed main class. when she is not currently in one of her (0 second cooldown) iframes she is pretty much always in superarmor. so lets pretend for a second that you are right, and grabs need to ideally be removed from the game entirely, then how does one ever CC a sorc for example? or a class with SA block? the issue at hand is fairly obvious, or maybe this is really the thing you want in disguise? be even more untouchable and turn the game into a pure superarmor tradefest in which barely anything but your gear and choice of class even matters, since nobody will be CCing each other anyways.

grab is a necessary mechanic ESPECIALLY when protections are so out of hand as they are currently. a couple years back before successions, core skills, reboots people were not complaining about grabs nearly as much as they are today, because frankly, the importance of having a grab was far far lower in those times, since the game had far more frontal guards and unprotected skills as opposed to permanent superarmor.

instead of crying about grabs, think about the bigger picture for a second. i personally also dont like having to rely on grabs so much, even though i luckily have access to them, however the problem is not the existance of the grab mechanic itself.

Lol, I saw OP in RBF. he was 1V30 at the first capture of the opponent side. The worst part is OP is landing many kill.

OP is so trolling peeps.

Note: I also saw another sorceress one tapping many peeps in a row with free back attack.

+ 100 on that.

When it was still viable to actually CC people in normal fighting without a grab, the importance of a grab was still high, but it wasnt a "win button" because a lot of other CCs managed to get through. But with the abundance of Super Armor, especially the passive kind like Striker / Guardian / Sage / Nova, where SA is applied during skills that normally do not have it, normal CC attempts are rarely leading to any success. 

Nowadays, even Frontal Guard basically counts as not protected because of the abundance of skills that goes through Frontals or casts behind them, which is another big issue of the current game. If it wasn's as easy to ignore frontals, there would be less crying about getting more SA skills.

Due to all that, most of PvP nowadays is either trading each other to death, or the one with a grab wins. But the way to solve this is not to remove grabs. That would just lead to a different kind of imbalance, where iframes and mobility and damage make up the entire PvP scene.  The better way to solve this would be to remove a lot of the SA protections, maybe replace some with FG, and also remove a lot of behind FG CCs, and protected CCs. Turn down damage so not everybody blows up in 2 seconds flat, and then look at which matchups are still heavily favoured towards one class and go from there. 

In my opinion, the current state of things is just not healthy and also unfun. When most classes have overpowered mechanics, PvP becomes less about skill, and more about rotating the same buttons in a row and hoping for a lucky catch.