Just wondering if there is any opinion on this subject. I've seen over the years of this game how players changed strategies to grief other players. Anywhere from flagging and killign them non stop until they leave. Jumping in their rotation (mostly valencia times) having the player who was previously grinding flag to chase the griefer away, only to lose karma enough to be sent to jail and lose all your buffs. To now, where certain high cc classes, activelly try to make you lose exp and crystals by lowerign your health enough and cc'ing you until the surrounding mobs kills you, forcign a pve mob death, over pvp. 

There was a huge outcry the moment players learned to defend themselves from griefers by removing gear to drastically increase the karma loss, but it seems ok to let griefers destroy players exp and crystals. 

It seems like the devs don't know what to do when it comes to minimizing griefing in BDO.  Before, PK resulted in EXP loss, then they removed that and came up with the Karma system to discourage PK.  While, on paper, this was good and made sense, what this introduced was a new style of griefing, where players abuse the Karma system's ruleset to grief other players.  Mob feeding being the only way to defend yourself from said act of griefing.  However, this, at base-level, is a form of griefing itself.  Which is circular and redundant (fight griefing with griefing), and at times, can result in a battle of who can grief for the longest amount of time.

https://www.blackdesertfoundry.com/karma-bombing-broken-mechanics-make-griefing-the-best-option/

They came up with a Sheriff System, released it on Global Labs, then quickly scrapped it because their idea was trash.  They've since announced that they are aware that the Karma system is being abused, and while not wanting to change the Karma system "in any major way", they said they'd come up with an "operational solution" to address this issue.  This was stated at Calpheon Ball 2021.

https://www.sea.playblackdesert.com/en-US/News/Detail?groupContentNo=6882&countryType=en-US

As it stands, what we have now is what we have to work with.  There are numerous threads discussing this issue, but often times, those topics turn sour very quickly.  Not surprising because the topic of griefing in BDO is a very polarizing topic and the community seems to be torn about the issue.  On one hand, we need to "protect" newer / low geared / bad at PvP players who want to grind in peace, but at the same time, this allows for an abuse of the current Karma system that, I believe, isn't well thought out.  It's difficult, it seems, for players to take a neutral stance on this topic because people tend to fall into either camp A or camp B, valiantly defending people who get PK'd while ignoring the issues being brought up by the other camp, who often do not see PK as being worse than being rotation griefed while grinding.

https://www.naeu.playblackdesert.com/en-US/Forum/ForumTopic/Detail?_topicNo=31010&_opinionNo=0

https://www.naeu.playblackdesert.com/en-US/Forum/ForumTopic/Detail?_topicNo=30489&_opinionNo=128459

My hope is that the Karma system can do all these things simultaneously; Protect players who need protection, Is not be abusable, Maintains BDO's core concepts of Open World grinding ("huge open field" / "fighting monsters alongside others" dev quotes), and provides a way that all players are held accountable for their actions if they choose to grief in any way.  It is idealistic, but I believe, if the right system is implemented, these things can be achieved.  If so, maybe we can remove mob-feeding.  If so, maybe Karmabombing won't be a thing.  If so, random PK will be even more discouraged than it is now.  If so, maybe we can have a better open world experience.  Here's to wishful thinking.

Really nicely written esplanation of the current status quo.

Speaking from my perspective, I dont think the majority of pvpers are happy about mob feeding being the go to soloution when faced with certain types of players. Its a toxic soloution to a toxic problem, but its the only soloution that has meaningful success. You cant really blame players for abusing the rules as they are implemented to get the outcomes that they want. The person who is actually a jerk is the person who left that rule as it is despite being fully aware of the sorts of interactions it leads too.

Nobody said it was OK, there are complains about both situations.

Both removing gear to increase karma loss or mob feeding (this is the usual term used for the behavior you mention) are creating problems, but we don't have anything better right now. Both are often linked in addition, but both deserve to be removed/countered with rules. 

Hi Kamkam,

Lineage 2 is an older mmo that existed before BDO, they share many of the same qualities. Especially its karma system. During Lineage 2 beta stage, griefers found a way to grief other players by ccing them to death while mobs attack them. This ensured that the griefer didn't go red because technically they didn't kill the player the mobs did. NCsoft later changed it so that an unflagged player could be attacked but could not be CCed. You could only be CCed if you flagged up. If BDO implemented that change then it would stop the griefing tactic of being feed to mobs.

And at the same time remove the last tool left to deal with griefers. No thanks. Rather they should rework the whole system.

Agree. They should rework the initial stages of the karma system, only then should they remove bodythrowing and mob feeding at the same time. 

Then later in the GoD expansion they gave one class a skill that was damage over time and could be used on unflagged targets. The best part? It couldnt kill players it left them at minimum 1 health. Thus griefing was perfected and learning from past mistakes is apparently very overrated for mmo devs.

The funniest thing is DFS xd I will not leave even if I lose lol why I should ? Xd, but I always take duel  just to check myself.. btw yea they dont leave even if they lose so... DFS is waste of time for both xd They will just try to CC u among mobs. I always switch to cheaper crystal set up when I see someone and totally ignore oponent I just keep doing my stuff, but I do smaller pulls to minimize risk of being killed by mobs until oponent get bored. Meanwhile if I notice he is doing big pulls is my time to grab xd