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UTC 15 : 30 Apr 22, 2024
CEST 17 : 30 Apr 22, 2024
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#Suggestions
Dodge rate (evasion) limits for simpler balancing
Apr 19, 2023, 16:18 (UTC)
1902 36
Last Edit : Apr 20, 2023, 17:15 (UTC)
# 21
On: Apr 20, 2023, 16:55 (UTC), Written by ItWasDsyncIswear

The reason why "DR" builds get blown up is because people build full AP. Double Disto, Offensive Lightstone Sets, Offensive Crystals etc. giving up defensives wherever they can. I don't see why someone purposely giving up all defense should get up from the ground while being able to kill others without CC.

i get blown up with defensive lightstones, artifacts, addons and not glass cannon crystals on a class that simply has no options to avoid damage with mobility.

Last Edit : Apr 21, 2023, 08:47 (UTC)
# 22
On: Apr 20, 2023, 16:55 (UTC), Written by ItWasDsyncIswear

If you look at a ~700 GS DR build with only 1 accuracy accessory (e.g. TET Turo) you'll already be at 920ish accuracy with basic buffs. This is pretty meta for DR and some people go for way more accuracy after 305/309 AP. If you have 920 Accuracy you pretty much negate 1150 Evasion, which means the Evasion player won't get up. (Would put you at around 70% hitrate without buffs)

1150 evasion is literately a gearlet bro.

244 4634
Lv 63
Hnnie
Last Edit : Apr 21, 2023, 17:13 (UTC)
# 23
On: Apr 21, 2023, 08:47 (UTC), Written by CatDK

1150 evasion is literately a gearlet bro.

Exactly making my point. If you read the next sentence it would make sense. If you want to compare offense and defense you need to do it on equal grounds.

Can't compare a gearlet to a 1.5-2T silver build. Of course you won't kill them, that's how BDO works. You are also not killing a 600+ DR build with 700 GS, so why should you kill an equal evasion build. (Not trying to say the gear gap in BDO is good, but it is what it is.)

If you take a 1.5-2T AP build then both the DR and Evasion build get blown up. It's not an Evasion issue, it's the gear gap. People always build full AP and expect that their 400b silver build should blow up 2T builds.

Last Edit : Apr 22, 2023, 16:49 (UTC)
# 24
On: Apr 21, 2023, 17:13 (UTC), Written by ItWasDsyncIswear

Exactly making my point. If you read the next sentence it would make sense. If you want to compare offense and defense you need to do it on equal grounds.

Can't compare a gearlet to a 1.5-2T silver build. Of course you won't kill them, that's how BDO works. You are also not killing a 600+ DR build with 700 GS, so why should you kill an equal evasion build. (Not trying to say the gear gap in BDO is good, but it is what it is.)

If you take a 1.5-2T AP build then both the DR and Evasion build get blown up. It's not an Evasion issue, it's the gear gap. People always build full AP and expect that their 400b silver build should blow up 2T builds.

Speaking from someone who is 734 GS, whose gear costs 1.13T including caphras and has DR at 587, I can confidently tell you 3 things.

1. It doesnt cost as much silver to get evasion as it does to get accuracy

2. I get blown up by people who have 294 AP in one combo

3. To get to 600 DR you heavily need to cut AP, which evasion does as well, but ultimately you end up with an evasion player you cannot hit compared to that player being able to hit you.

So either you are wildly wrong, or the damage is way to much for evasion players to have, or DR just sucks so bad.

I think we can both agree PA Has done a great job at mismanaging these things.

One player with the same AP can get CC'd and die, where as the other can get CC'd and live.

Last Edit : Apr 22, 2023, 19:01 (UTC)
# 25
On: Apr 22, 2023, 16:47 (UTC), Written by GodSlinger

Speaking from someone who is 734 GS, whose gear costs 1.13T including caphras and has DR at 587, I can confidently tell you 3 things.

1. It doesnt cost as much silver to get evasion as it does to get accuracy

2. I get blown up by people who have 294 AP in one combo

3. To get to 600 DR you heavily need to cut AP, which evasion does as well, but ultimately you end up with an evasion player you cannot hit compared to that player being able to hit you.

So either you are wildly wrong, or the damage is way to much for evasion players to have, or DR just sucks so bad.

I think we can both agree PA Has done a great job at mismanaging these things.

One player with the same AP can get CC'd and die, where as the other can get CC'd and live.

PA said themself, "damage calculation is to difficult" that's why we have evasion that god tier, and DR that don't work.

 Sadly as you mention evasion gear basically free, "counter" for it very expensive, but those "gitgut"/"skill issue" clowns actually perfectly aware of this, they just play dumb, its common across any games for people who usually defend exploit/broken balance be the one who mostly benefiting from it.

Last Edit : Apr 22, 2023, 19:30 (UTC)
# 26
On: Apr 22, 2023, 19:01 (UTC), Written by Potato

PA said themself, "damage calculation is to difficult" that's why we have evasion that god tier, and DR that don't work.

 Sadly as you mention evasion gear basically free, "counter" for it very expensive, but those "gitgut"/"skill issue" clowns actually perfectly aware of this, they just play dumb, its common across any games for people who usually defend exploit/broken balance be the one who mostly benefiting from it.

Actually literately every other mmo have more complex damage formulas than bdo as generally they have way more stats in the first place, but for them it maybe too complex for sure.

244 4634
Lv 63
Hnnie
Last Edit : Apr 22, 2023, 19:50 (UTC)
# 27
On: Apr 22, 2023, 19:30 (UTC), Written by CatDK

Actually literately every other mmo have more complex damage formulas than bdo as generally they have way more stats in the first place, but for them it maybe too complex for sure.

I'm 99% sure BDO engine works on some sort of "default" value stats in order to save server/network resources and i think this is the main reason PA will never show combat logs. Calculation of evasion is basically = hit or miss, while calculation of damage include insane amount of hidden mods, which takes server time. That's why small tests might work properly, because they usually done slowly, while real fight ( including FPS magic) way to fast for server to properly calculate it.

tl dr - in order for DP to work, PA need to increasse server load  to calculate it = required better servers= pay more= nope.

Last Edit : Apr 22, 2023, 21:21 (UTC)
# 28
On: Apr 22, 2023, 19:48 (UTC), Written by Potato

I'm 99% sure BDO engine works on some sort of "default" value stats in order to save server/network resources and i think this is the main reason PA will never show combat logs. Calculation of evasion is basically = hit or miss, while calculation of damage include insane amount of hidden mods, which takes server time. That's why small tests might work properly, because they usually done slowly, while real fight ( including FPS magic) way to fast for server to properly calculate it.

tl dr - in order for DP to work, PA need to increasse server load  to calculate it = required better servers= pay more= nope.

They could combat this by increasing the servers tickrate, its pretty low now days especially for how fast each input is these days , unfortunately they wouldnt be able to cheap out on servers like they are currently.

Edit: iirc the tick rate is around 24ish

 Explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/n2oiju/analysis_on_why_saiframes_dont_work/

Last Edit : Apr 22, 2023, 21:50 (UTC)
# 29
On: Apr 22, 2023, 21:18 (UTC), Written by TitanOfWar

They could combat this by increasing the servers tickrate, its pretty low now days especially for how fast each input is these days , unfortunately they wouldnt be able to cheap out on servers like they are currently.

Edit: iirc the tick rate is around 24ish

 Explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/n2oiju/analysis_on_why_saiframes_dont_work/

If the tickrate would be 24ish then we would have close to zero desync.

But unfortunately, the tick rate is in 1 digit range...

244 4634
Lv 63
Hnnie
Last Edit : Apr 22, 2023, 23:12 (UTC)
# 30
On: Apr 22, 2023, 21:50 (UTC), Written by CatDK

If the tickrate would be 24ish then we would have close to zero desync.

But unfortunately, the tick rate is in 1 digit range...

24 ticks per second is really low especially for a fast paced game  even CSGO is in the 60s now days

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