I attest by Library Records that continued improvements for Red Battlefield and a progression path for PvPers has been among the top and the oldest of desires of Black Desert Adventurers, to include even the voices no longer hear to be heard.

Adventurers deserve to choose their own destiny

I want to add some opposition to this idea as it seems most people just see more money and go 'Hell Yes!'. Although I believe marginally increasing the rewards for RBF would be good for the game, making it a sustainable option for progression would have negative effects on the game as a whole. My reasons being...

1 : Inflation is already at an all time high in the game.

This one is self explanatory. Items are hitting all time highs in price to the point that the playerbase can't sustain the demand based on current market caps. Adding more silver to the game will simply make these issues worse than they are. We are in a situation where casual players already have plenty of options to push for 100bil+ items and even tie up large portions of silver in market preorders.

2: BDO is an MMORPG, not a match based combat fantasy game. 

MMORPG's thrive on their economys. Your progression in the game and the time it takes, is completely dependent on market prices and how much time or effort it will take you to obtain those items or the currency to buy them. As you progress more, your time becomes more valuable and going back to do something in the early game for items inhibits your progress. Later game players thrive on being able to purchase early game items as needed. It is important that new players come in and progress naturally from the beginning to fulfill that market and allow players in the late game to stay in the late game. Your suggestion would essentially allow a player to come into the world of Black Desert, create a trial, and have a sustainable option to progress without ever committing to adding items to the economy. 

3: Time spent in RBF should not exceed the value of Node War participation

The key word in that is participation. Rewards for RBF should not exceed the smallest portion awarded for participating in a node war. Node Wars already provide signficant amounts of money for someone looking to monetize their pvp, I'm sure some of you will disagree, but referring to the 2 points above this one, more silver for players without participation in the market will make progression overall worse. Node wars will also suffer, more than they are right now, due to time spent in RBF being worth more money than fighting for a node. RBF is better than war? Why war?

4. Botting

Look, botting isn't an issue and even with these changes would most likely not become an issue, but I just want you to think about how easy it would be to use this version of RBF to create an account worth monetary value. Right now BDO has a great solution to botting, and that is simply integrating afk activities into the game. There is no incentive to bot, when the game already has plenty of outlits for a player to set up and let the game play itself. Because RBF can be entered on trials, there is a high probability that bots will find their way into the game mode if there is an ample amount of progression to be had. Just think about it, Start menu > Trial Menu > Select character > In game Menu > RBF > Basic inputs to avoid afk timer > Teleport to BA > RBF > and so on. All a bot would have to be programmed to do is select through a few menus, and do any basic inputs to avoid the afk timer. If you think people won't do it or wont be able to beat Easy Anti-Cheat, I would say your wrong. Once there is an easy way to achieve a goal, someone, somewhere, will find a way. 

Now, all of that being said, I do agree that the current rewards for RBF are not on par with the current state of the game. Those rewards should become more significant but should revolve more around making your time outside of RBF better rather than raw silver. Here are my suggestions to make that happen...

1: Add 3 dailies that scale up and require you to win in order to accept the quest for the next daily

   a. (Victory in the Red Battlefield #1)

      Requirement : Win a match in Red Battlefield 

      Reward: [Month - Year] Red Battlefield Spoils of War
      (This would be a loot box that PA could change the loot table each month to taylor to the current economy. Think small injections of             alchemy ingrediants, certain undesirable gatherables, enhancement materials, anything sold out on the market that logically shouldn't           be sold out)

   b. (Victory in the Red Battlefield #2)

      Requirement : Win a second match in Red Battlefield

      Reward: 1-3x Loot scrolls

   c. (Victory in the Red Battlefield #3)

      Requirement : Win a third match in Red Battlefield

      Reward: 1-2x Golden Blessings of Agris

2: Do exactly what choice is suggesting but with WAY LESS raw silver and no loot scrolls (again.... we need that drop rate going to the economy and it's lack of items, not silver)

1st place winning team (Max people, Max Time, etc.) : $100,000,000

1st place losing team (Max people, Max Time, etc.) : $50,000,000

Simply scale it down from those numbers. Assuming you collect all 3 of the dailies in the suggestion above, your potential monetary gain should be relatively close to the income Choice is suggesting to be a reward. 

3. RBF Seasons

Why can't we have accolades and leaderboards for RBF and reward players for achieving those accomplishments. It would be really cool to see some one of a kind temporary titles and cosmetics awarded to people who ahieved 1st place in specific leaderboards
You could do endless thing with this. (Most kills in a single match, Greatest CC score in a single match, Most Caps in a single match, Most points earned in a single match, etc.) Add a condition that 'x' amount of players have to play 'y' amount of time for any of the stats to hit the leaderboards. 

The proposed reward system by Choice would have no substanial impact on our current economic situation as even the best player rewards aren't going to come close to open world PvE. And I can guarntee you that no one is going to solely replace their silver income by RBF alone outside of a handful of people that I know personally who live in RBF(They weren't grinding open world to begin with)

We're talking about an active base of like 100 RBF players who hop in for the daily(dead with 20-30people throughout the day) Nothing substantial enough to impact current market issues. Also, Remember that most people in RBF are sub 680gs - 700+ and have some of the best slotted gear in the game and grind at very specific spots that don't contribute to shortages. 

So, I understand the basis of your topic points but we're talking about a VERY small portion of the playerbase here. As it stands now, The counter argument can be made that abusing the PvP scene is exactly what keeps a portion of players off the game entirely(We saw growth on AoS release and now that has dwindled slowly over the months as it closed) Because some people geniuely love PvP aspects in MMORPG's(even if it's capped content it might make them grind for the real gear in game) Coming from Aion from 10+ years ago, The biggest thing I felt that most games were missing was a solid foundation for PvP where Aion excelled at the open world PvP concept. 

At the end of the day, This is solely to give incentive for people to at least participate in PvP and be rewarded for doing so. It's not meant to pull people away from PvE (whilist considering those who don't PvE anymore to begin with)

I want to have a healthy debate, so please dont take this as an argument, but simply a response and rebuttle. 

RBF Currently doesn't come close to current PVE gains, but with Choice's suggestion it does. A player has the potential to make 994.5mil/hour. Although a single player, most likely wouldnt collect all of that money, essentially RBF would be creating up to 7.67 Billion silver per match. Currently, RBF only has potential to create 480 million silver per match. That is a potential increase of ~1598% silver being generated in the game. This will undoubetdly have negative effects on the market. I believe the reward for seige in roughly 3bil (2Billion in raw silver and roughly a bil in caphers and spirit dust); 70 people collecting that once a week is a minimum of 140 Billion raw silver generated weekly. With Choice's suggestion, a SINGLE RBF lobby will do well over double that silver injection on a daily basis. 

Right now, with the current rewards, yes RBF is 'dead', but thats because people have to chose betweem 60mil/hour at best case scenerio and casually making 500mil+ at PEN tuvala. Once RBF becomes a sustainable option for progression, more people will be there. We both know thats true. Hell, I probably only do 2-3 RBFs a week, but you'll definetly see me there a whole lot more if there is more silver to be had, espiecally if we are talking potential to earn 300x what we currently are. There is absolutely no way that other people won't have similar logic and start to put more time into RBF. 

Im very curious on what you mean about 'abusing the pvp scene'. Im going to assume that you are referring to people quiting because the open world is designed around non consentual PVP. Players have ample amount of options to avoid this. Marni realm is a prime example. Also there is nothing stopping a player from swapping channels to avoid harassment. I'd like to remind you and anyone else that reads this, it is a bannable offense to channel hop in an effort to continuesly harass a specific target. If you have issues with this, turn on a screen cap if possible and definetly send in a ticket. 

AoS is a perfect example of the points I'm trying to  get across. AoS was introduced with no ability to earn silver while doing it, and the rewards were slim, but effective in enhancing your gameplay in the open world. There were one time rewards that gave players an injection of wealth through shakatu boxes, fail stacks, and cron stones. This works because the rewards (with potential to be extremely lucrative) were only able to be obtained once and they came in the form of items. Despite this lack of silver gains, the game had an influx of players returning or starting out new. The lack of progression had no bearing on the success of AoS because there were rewards and accolades that people wanted. The reward for AoS, was rank, Solare Knight title, bragging rights, etc. Refer to the last paragraph in my suggestions where I talk about potential RBF season that would incorporate leaderboards and accolades. If people played AoS for those reasons, why wouldn't they play more RBF for the same reasons?

I want to reiterate that I do believe RBF should have something more substantial as rewards. Simply put, my opinion is, adding more raw silver to ANY aspect of the game is not a great idea at the moment. I believe it will be much more healthier for the game if rewards for PVP were centered around a core value of 'Enhancing the Open World'. I would love to see some of this value that Choice is suggesting to be given in the form of making your grind more profitable, whether that be PVE or PVTREE. 

On: May 10, 2023, 02:07 (UTC), Written by MonkeyWithGuns

Don't want to text wall so I cut it down to the timestamp lol

You're right in the sense of silver input/generated into the system but it's only going to be achieved by the top performers of each match. Realistically that'll be someone who is very geared which Choice has covered a couple times in his personal streams acknowledging that higher geared players will undoubtly make more money out of the RBF just like they do in open world and the best case scenario is 1billion(roughly) an hour. That's factoring in winning and being the best performer and meeting all the base requirments to get max rewards.

With that being said, In comparison to open world. Those same individuals who obtain 1bill h/r in RBF, Can easily go outside of RBF and knock out 800mill-1bill h/r with a given high-end zone of their choosing. So, How the silver is pumped into the economy isn't going to change the overall state of the economy unless my hypothesis on the AoS growth holds some weight. We would have to have a very healthy increase in player base to the game to obstruct the total silver economy and they would have to come for the PvP alone. But.. Here's the thing, RBF doesn't provide capped content like AoS(outside of season RBF) So you will need decent gear to make decent money. Otherwise, It would be way more benefical for you to grind open world and make more silver per hour. That brings us back to your initial issue and provides a solution. They will have to contribute to the base game and it's economy before obtaining gear that is substantial enough to allow them to migrate to RBF incentives (lets say 670gs) which would still take the average player a healthy amount of time to obtain and thus force them to contribute to the games economy in a "healthy" manner. 

Now, As far as the AoS situation. A lot of people were vocal on the matter of rewards across multiple streams and Choice had also touched basis on the idea that AoS should've also provided similar reward systems instead of what was provided because outside of the inital rewards and the leaderboards, There was no true incentive for people to do AoS. I think it's safe to assume that most people joined for the rewards and then never touched AoS again, Leaving only the named players and those who came to BDO to see how the PvP worked. As you stated for bragging rights. But some of this blame falls on PA for making AoS strictly seasonal and locking us out instead of having practice mode open 24/7. I think we could've salvaged some new players if they hadn't done so. 

I understand that things will/can be abused. But It's up to PA to fine tune these issues. We just had an outbreak in saunil rework and they fixed it in a week (they can be proactive if they choose to be) At best I could understand them supplementing silver with caphras instead. Currently in NA our caphra market is completely ruined in comparsion to EU. 50k orders. But we are also moving into our 3rd fallen god piece so caphras are slowly being pushed out of the game as well. I don't enjoy the idea of supplemental rewards such as cron's/memeory fragments/valks or RNG boxes like shakatu. Because they only contribute to the system of enhancing. I don't want potential new players to feel like they are forced or incentivezed to go down that path and having raw silver being the victim in doing so. Buying gear has always been the safest route. 

Leaderboards is a great idea but we do somewhat already have that. Ranking chart exists in total kills in RBF but they are more than welcome to add more exclusive things such as titles/outfits and as you said potential seasoning of the RBF(Solely in regards to rankings) not another lock out lol

I believe at it's core we both agree on the fundamental points and purposes of this system. I just don't believe that the silver it generates will hold much relevance to the mass amount of players who prefer to PvE over PvP. Some people hate everything about PvP and would prefer that it didn't exist at all (considerable majority) as seen by years of posts complaining about it. Just as current RBF is marketed now, I think the majority of players will be end game players who will just benefit from their time in RBF now. But this might be biased as i'm one of those players who grinds only when I have my agris full because i'm already 700+gs.

"Q: Won't players with more gear make more money in RBF?

A: Yes. Just like in PvE, higher gear players make more money per hour because they can grind faster. Just like in lifeskilling, higher mastery players make more money lifeskilling. This is no different, and follows general game progression."

Except this isn't true for PVE as the wall you hit isn't gear related, its how fast your pets can loot combined with an AP cap.
Lets cap AP in RBF and see how much you and every other gear carried streamer wants to go in there..
Oh wait.. they already tried that didn't they. Anyone remember how that turned out?

Please do this or something like this, Pvpers have waited 7 years for something like this.

Also Choice, you are a legend. Thank you.

This is incredible Choice <3 . i tried to post something similar only a couple weeks ago or so. Thank you so much for doing this and bringing attention the underserved side of our community !

 i went into great detail about how it won't affect anything substantial, The PVE is so strong that having a couple hundred million an hour come from pvp is not gonna make people leave open world for RBF. it's simply not as good as PVE but is meaningful to players who hate grinding.

You can find my post here.

I was your 9992-10000 upvotes lol

This is a disingenous take. The old caps for RBF several years ago functioned differently than the caps you see in recent times with Node Wars and Siege. If i'm not mistaken, the caps wouldn't automatically apply regardless of one's gear. It instead completely barred you from entering that RBF unless you brought your gear down to a level that would allow you to enter. Anyone that even casually played the game and progressed would be barred. Now Pearl Abyss could replace the Season RBFs with actual gear capped RBFs using the current capping system, but that isn't what this thread is about.

Pets are given out quite frequently, i paid next to nothing for pets on my EU account and i have 1x t5, 2x t4, and 2x t3 pets and they are the least of my worries. 

Also