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UTC 14 : 51 May 18, 2024
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DR Buff when?
Jul 18, 2023, 04:03 (UTC)
2866 86
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Last Edit : Jul 18, 2023, 14:04 (UTC)
# 11
On: Jul 18, 2023, 12:10 (UTC), Written by ReconKangas

Trust me when I say this my Valk is VERY TANKY with a evasion build.

I caught my attention this line. 

leaving out the first. believe me that scaling dr in this game enough to be considered a tank is not a good idea. I have tried in many ways to scale dr and conserve some damage and it is unplayable. I even wear full dr crystals with dr accessories and I keep nouver so as not to lower the ap so much and it is difficult to kill people with high gs and that is because you do not have enough ap. so the dr is not customizable at all. there are classes that take better advantage of the dr and others that are dr but do not take advantage of it as well as a valk or a nova. not even the warrior anymore since that poor class is currently on the floor. Believe me when I tell you that I have tried a thousand ways to make the dr hold out a bit but it cannot be done in the current conditions of the game. a lot of damage and little dr in this game. or rather a lot of damage and very difficult to scale DR.  I'll put it like this There is no DR user that I can't kill in this game with only 301 ap and I mean it. There is no current dr player that supports me 1 combo. maximum combo and a half

Last Edit : Jul 18, 2023, 14:40 (UTC)
# 12
On: Jul 18, 2023, 14:04 (UTC), Written by Girask

I caught my attention this line. 

leaving out the first. believe me that scaling dr in this game enough to be considered a tank is not a good idea. I have tried in many ways to scale dr and conserve some damage and it is unplayable. I even wear full dr crystals with dr accessories and I keep nouver so as not to lower the ap so much and it is difficult to kill people with high gs and that is because you do not have enough ap. so the dr is not customizable at all. there are classes that take better advantage of the dr and others that are dr but do not take advantage of it as well as a valk or a nova. not even the warrior anymore since that poor class is currently on the floor. Believe me when I tell you that I have tried a thousand ways to make the dr hold out a bit but it cannot be done in the current conditions of the game. a lot of damage and little dr in this game. or rather a lot of damage and very difficult to scale DR.  I'll put it like this There is no DR user that I can't kill in this game with only 301 ap and I mean it. There is no current dr player that supports me 1 combo. maximum combo and a half

Well it's nice to see you post relatively fast I do not want you feeling like things are hopeless and making you more frustrated.

My intention is try an leave you with some knowledge that I have attained over the years and also hope to share a little bit to the community.

When it comes to Dr scaling the number is soo high that I do not think it's even possible to obtain currently in game. 

To keep from taking damage it's like 1500+dr i.e good example is when you get a pure Blackstone with 1k dr you can still be killed granted it takes a lot players to do it.

With the above statement should lead to a conclusion that a pure DR build will not give you what your trying to obtain. 

Now In referring to AP and Damage this is also a very jaded issue. The two do not necessarily go hand in hand.

I am at work typing this so I won't be able to SS my gear I can post from garmoth.

This is my current gear I am using on my valk with stats and gems unfortunately I can't pull up view on my phone.

This is my tank build I use on my valk almost 90% of the time now.

I am over 316ap kutum so the Gs can be deceptive, if you can't kill someone with 316ap your not going to kill them with 323-330 nouver. As well as you are losing a lot of stats going straight nouver.

Usually at a combo level most people at 309ap can kill pretty much everything obviously there are some classes like Striker that are VERY tanky and with the right amount of gear can be almost unkillable in a single combo let alone 3 at high end.

But in my case with the above build I can survive 5 to 6 players (obviously depending on players) with my valk and still get up after being CC IN RBF. It also strikes a balance I can and do in fact get 10-20 kills per RBF without issue.

But I also adjust I have a accuracy offhand if needed and I also switch out Gems and artifacts/lighstone to increase my damage.

Again damage and Ap are NOT one and the same. Damage comes from your modifiers, skills modifiers and gem/artifacts, add ons as well as accessories add ons. 

If your not able to kills someone with 316ap then the above is a result of not having enough accuracy, crit damage, down attack damage and the list goes on and on tailored to your class.

IF you do T1,2 or T3 this will become painfully aware to you fast.

But you do not need 340ap to kill but you will need to be able to survive long enough to be able to do damage.

Last Edit : Jul 18, 2023, 16:43 (UTC)
# 13

why are you complaining when the only ones who lose are the AP monkeys?

43 1679
Lv 61
Adonaj
Last Edit : Jul 18, 2023, 17:15 (UTC)
# 14

1 Year Anti Evasion Casual Catchup Progression PvP Build Example utilizing Basic Damage Reduction Resistances Human Damage and decent Accuracy

With TET accesories only (because no bal!z for PEN) and very fresh Endgame Gear so not even a Veteran Plan.

As we can see its easy to reach decent stats and most of the items pictured are not even ''Enhancement Dependant''

Everything can be purchased which serves as proof of how ''Accesible'' this point is by pretty much everyone within a year playtime.

Its obviously more on the offensive side relying on basic dr/ hp and resistances enough for those few seconds a bdo duel lasts.

You either succeed or fail. Its obviously not much against post 700+ GS players but people cant expect the best of the best in no time, everything requires investment.

I am no expert by any means i just ''do my homework'' and i do understand that DR is not meant for tankiness but as a statistics that will allow you to trade attacks enough so you can kill the target. If you dont manage you'll get outlasted obviously.

Now wether Evasion needs some softcaps and diminishing returns starting lower than at 90% or wherever that is or any form of finetuning to balance it out a bit i dont know... I guess Evasion players will say no and DR players will say yes. So i'll just say yes and pick a side myself XD

Last Edit : Jul 18, 2023, 17:44 (UTC)
# 15
On: Jul 18, 2023, 17:11 (UTC), Written by LordDagon

1 Year Anti Evasion Casual Catchup Progression PvP Build Example utilizing Basic Damage Reduction Resistances Human Damage and decent Accuracy

With TET accesories only (because no bal!z for PEN) and very fresh Endgame Gear so not even a Veteran Plan.

As we can see its easy to reach decent stats and most of the items pictured are not even ''Enhancement Dependant''

Everything can be purchased which serves as proof of how ''Accesible'' this point is by pretty much everyone within a year playtime.

Its obviously more on the offensive side relying on basic dr/ hp and resistances enough for those few seconds a bdo duel lasts.

You either succeed or fail. Its obviously not much against post 700+ GS players but people cant expect the best of the best in no time, everything requires investment.

I am no expert by any means i just ''do my homework'' and i do understand that DR is not meant for tankiness but as a statistics that will allow you to trade attacks enough so you can kill the target. If you dont manage you'll get outlasted obviously.

Now wether Evasion needs some softcaps and diminishing returns starting lower than at 90% or wherever that is or any form of finetuning to balance it out a bit i dont know... I guess Evasion players will say no and DR players will say yes. So i'll just say yes and pick a side myself XD

I kinda an example of a accuracy build I was referring too.

Your Dr is high enough to take SA hits but when your CC you will get wiped. You have to trade X for the ability to hit an evasion targets its a great starting build a little disturbing that you went full C20 on your nouver when c14 is pretty much the end same with spending 3k caphras for c20 on your dandi for 1 accuracy.

You should of used those to c19-C20 your awakening and c14-20 offhand to c20 your boots 1st. I.e. more dp,dr HP..

Literally you only gain 5 accuracy and 2 dp for tour current set up.

All of which new region gives for free. I.e. 20 accuracy.

But good start anyway

This was deleted by the writer.
Last Edit : Jul 18, 2023, 18:31 (UTC)
# 17

Yes indeed C19 is enough and i really appreciate the input about those stats especially regarding the Urugon's.

Those little details make a difference indeed.

There's always room for trade offs. For example i consider the Jin Viper mandatory at this point to be over 900 Accuracy but let's say player levels a Dawn Earring to PEN then that might leave some room to add a 2nd RBF Carmae for example.

Or lets say player gets more AP due to PEN accesories he could even go with a Revived Lunar Necklace at some point for additional accuracy loosing some AP or maybe he starts that way even.

So yes there are alot of options possible even for players that want more defense. What i do understand for DR is its defensive properties are based more on ''Just enough resistance/ HP etc'' to get the kill and not be on a Tanky role. More like ''The Hammer not the Anvil''

For example on Warrior i would Consider its Succesion ''The Anvil'' more propper for that purpose which has its own tradeoffs ''Not a Hammer'' and there are Succesion Warriors on Hybrid Builds even.

If i create a scenario of an actual Battlefield i would consider ''Awakening Valkyrie'' the first main line of Attack, which leads the formation followed up by the reserve ''Succesion Warrior'' which maintains the whole body while ''Succesion Valkyrie'' acts as a specialist in that formation that both supports and deals with possible threats to the main line and ''Awakening Warrior'' acts as another support of Shock Infantry where it tries to destroy or open gaps.

And all of them have their specialties and tradeoffs.

I think we fall easy to the trap of expecting to get everything on one spec one class one build which would kill the balance even if its not perfect but its always under development and eventually everything becomes better in time.

Last Edit : Jul 18, 2023, 20:03 (UTC)
# 18
On: Jul 18, 2023, 14:40 (UTC), Written by ReconKangas

Well it's nice to see you post relatively fast I do not want you feeling like things are hopeless and making you more frustrated.

My intention is try an leave you with some knowledge that I have attained over the years and also hope to share a little bit to the community.

When it comes to Dr scaling the number is soo high that I do not think it's even possible to obtain currently in game. 

To keep from taking damage it's like 1500+dr i.e good example is when you get a pure Blackstone with 1k dr you can still be killed granted it takes a lot players to do it.

With the above statement should lead to a conclusion that a pure DR build will not give you what your trying to obtain. 

Now In referring to AP and Damage this is also a very jaded issue. The two do not necessarily go hand in hand.

I am at work typing this so I won't be able to SS my gear I can post from garmoth.

This is my current gear I am using on my valk with stats and gems unfortunately I can't pull up view on my phone.

This is my tank build I use on my valk almost 90% of the time now.

I am over 316ap kutum so the Gs can be deceptive, if you can't kill someone with 316ap your not going to kill them with 323-330 nouver. As well as you are losing a lot of stats going straight nouver.

Usually at a combo level most people at 309ap can kill pretty much everything obviously there are some classes like Striker that are VERY tanky and with the right amount of gear can be almost unkillable in a single combo let alone 3 at high end.

But in my case with the above build I can survive 5 to 6 players (obviously depending on players) with my valk and still get up after being CC IN RBF. It also strikes a balance I can and do in fact get 10-20 kills per RBF without issue.

But I also adjust I have a accuracy offhand if needed and I also switch out Gems and artifacts/lighstone to increase my damage.

Again damage and Ap are NOT one and the same. Damage comes from your modifiers, skills modifiers and gem/artifacts, add ons as well as accessories add ons. 

If your not able to kills someone with 316ap then the above is a result of not having enough accuracy, crit damage, down attack damage and the list goes on and on tailored to your class.

IF you do T1,2 or T3 this will become painfully aware to you fast.

But you do not need 340ap to kill but you will need to be able to survive long enough to be able to do damage.

It's funny because your being class dr you go evasion. you support up to 6 players I can only stand 1 with your same dp XD  I don't want to throw hate at anyone. I just want to make it clear that evasion in this game is an evil that affects all DR users. since we have to try much harder to be able to do something moderately in wars. That leads to the game being brutally unfair to DR users.  We have no way to escalate defense without losing all the damage and all the resistance.

Last Edit : Jul 18, 2023, 20:06 (UTC)
# 19
On: Jul 18, 2023, 17:11 (UTC), Written by LordDagon

1 Year Anti Evasion Casual Catchup Progression PvP Build Example utilizing Basic Damage Reduction Resistances Human Damage and decent Accuracy

With TET accesories only (because no bal!z for PEN) and very fresh Endgame Gear so not even a Veteran Plan.

As we can see its easy to reach decent stats and most of the items pictured are not even ''Enhancement Dependant''

Everything can be purchased which serves as proof of how ''Accesible'' this point is by pretty much everyone within a year playtime.

Its obviously more on the offensive side relying on basic dr/ hp and resistances enough for those few seconds a bdo duel lasts.

You either succeed or fail. Its obviously not much against post 700+ GS players but people cant expect the best of the best in no time, everything requires investment.

I am no expert by any means i just ''do my homework'' and i do understand that DR is not meant for tankiness but as a statistics that will allow you to trade attacks enough so you can kill the target. If you dont manage you'll get outlasted obviously.

Now wether Evasion needs some softcaps and diminishing returns starting lower than at 90% or wherever that is or any form of finetuning to balance it out a bit i dont know... I guess Evasion players will say no and DR players will say yes. So i'll just say yes and pick a side myself XD

With that DP and that DR so low you will do absolutely nothing. Maybe Warrior and Valk do because they have very resistant shields. but would you say the same of a berserker?  there are classes in this game that are DR and do not have a shield. So what does it leave us? Receive all impacts fully

Last Edit : Jul 18, 2023, 21:00 (UTC)
# 20
On: Jul 18, 2023, 20:03 (UTC), Written by Girask

It's funny because your being class dr you go evasion. you support up to 6 players I can only stand 1 with your same dp XD  I don't want to throw hate at anyone. I just want to make it clear that evasion in this game is an evil that affects all DR users. since we have to try much harder to be able to do something moderately in wars. That leads to the game being brutally unfair to DR users.  We have no way to escalate defense without losing all the damage and all the resistance.

Please go back to my 1st post on page 1.

The use of the Term Dr build is completely wrong as well as what people are using them for. 

Your largest stat on your gear is not DR its Evasion. You may have a Dr heavy Evasion Build but it operates on the same principle as a hybrid build.

Behgs gloves or ACCURACY Dahns glove is just that Accuracy build.. I cringe every time I hear DR Build you use higher accuracy builds as an Offence not defence which is why it takes 1500+dr to even start to mitigate damage. 

DR Is inefficient except for 1 purpose to Kill and to help mitigate damage while in SA/FG allowing you to take a few hits.

Gaining Accuracy in BDO is one of the hardest aspects... as well as keeping your Ap up high enough to do damage. In most cases running a 100% accuracy build at some point will leave you hitting at 100% but you won't have enough damage to out pace the DR on a top end evasion build that as you can see with my stats is higher than most players DR BUILDS that are not end game but 680+ gs. NOT to mention I am not even done yet with my build.

We need to understand the differences in gear and stop using hybrid evasion then call it a DR build and complain why you can't TANK hits then blame it on evasion.

When most glass cannon classes use DR and higher accuracy with human damage. Then out pace you with I frames, SA and movement to mitigate damage.

A true tank build should start at evasion, forgo accuracy add Dr until you can not then HP... This is True for almost ALL classes weather they have evasion passives or classes that have higher accuracy passives but have DR as well or HP we need to stop focusing on these clown builds of nouver with 330-40 ap without the use of accuracy accessories you use nouver to prop up your AP after the hit of turos,lunar,dawn's so on.. not to toss on uragons,Behgs then be a clown with narcs,Cresent guardian, ogre and basi then can't figure out why the hell you can't kill a 700-740gs player and get wiped at the same time by an evasion Class that can hit you at 100% of the time without any of the above.

A hybrid is a Hybrid MIN Max for a purpose not cuz some A$$ hat tells you your a DR Class therefore live and die by that build and never even consider your using the wrong tools on the wrong class for a wrong reason.

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