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UTC 15 : 34 May 18, 2024
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DR Buff when?
Jul 18, 2023, 04:03 (UTC)
2868 86
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Last Edit : Jul 28, 2023, 04:46 (UTC)
# 81

Only 650 dr with a t2 dr skill add on sadly: https://garmoth.com/character/dMsBH2g4XK

Ok so if I get it right you want blast classes to be as tanky as the tankier classes? Tamer, DK, Ranger, Archer, awakening Berserker, awakening Lahn, etc

0 112
Lv 66
Saeii
Last Edit : Jul 28, 2023, 05:02 (UTC)
# 82
On: Jul 28, 2023, 04:46 (UTC), Written by Saeii

Only 650 dr with a t2 dr skill add on sadly: https://garmoth.com/character/dMsBH2g4XK

Ok so if I get it right you want blast classes to be as tanky as the tankier classes? Tamer, DK, Ranger, Archer, awakening Berserker, awakening Lahn, etc

I'll pretend you didn't send that garbage. I'll seriously pretend you didn't just send me that crap. we are talking about an evasion user with very little GS works miracles and you send me a garmoth with all ultra end game? with double Deboreka Pen and all accuracy PEN jewelry and with an alchemy stone that rare people have?

See so that you understand it better. So they stop being fools and open their eyes at once. the valk has passives that gives you buff +100 of dr. so with little DR stands out more and can keep its damage

PD: That build you just sent me. I kill people with that same GS of 3 hits or 4. and if you don't believe me. Watch a Choice live show that has better GS than the one you just sent me and watch as it dies of 1 or 2 hits in massive


PDD: but what are you talking about? If evasion classes are supposed to be killer and are better than tank in mass and in 1v1 let alone. To kill a Corsair of 1300 evasion + passive evasion occupy get 100 steroid first

Last Edit : Jul 28, 2023, 06:48 (UTC)
# 83
On: Jul 28, 2023, 04:56 (UTC), Written by Girask

I'll pretend you didn't send that garbage. I'll seriously pretend you didn't just send me that crap. we are talking about an evasion user with very little GS works miracles and you send me a garmoth with all ultra end game? with double Deboreka Pen and all accuracy PEN jewelry and with an alchemy stone that rare people have?

See so that you understand it better. So they stop being fools and open their eyes at once. the valk has passives that gives you buff +100 of dr. so with little DR stands out more and can keep its damage

PD: That build you just sent me. I kill people with that same GS of 3 hits or 4. and if you don't believe me. Watch a Choice live show that has better GS than the one you just sent me and watch as it dies of 1 or 2 hits in massive


PDD: but what are you talking about? If evasion classes are supposed to be killer and are better than tank in mass and in 1v1 let alone. To kill a Corsair of 1300 evasion + passive evasion occupy get 100 steroid first

An what gear does 1300 eva need?

Last Edit : Jul 28, 2023, 09:11 (UTC)
# 84
On: Jul 28, 2023, 04:25 (UTC), Written by Girask

There the problem. They don't understand. They don't want to understand Dr. Y's problem if Dr is very good when you miraculously reach 700. I've tried it and it's extremely tank. You are not immortal like Evasion but you are quite Tank. Now what they don't want to understand is how you get to DR high without losing everything. Either you're tank or you're dano you can't be both and you can't go hybrid either. If you go hybrid then you won't be tank enough. If you go dano then you will go paper. But they will continue to use the Valk as an excuse and arguments. When I have already said several times that the DR is a garbage except in the Valk.

problem is, you are asking for DR buffs in general instead of asking for evasion enrfs and dr balancing across classes. if u just "buff dr" some dr classes will become even more obnoxious than eva stackers.

Last Edit : Jul 29, 2023, 04:40 (UTC)
# 85
On: Jul 28, 2023, 09:11 (UTC), Written by WhySoSeeryus

problem is, you are asking for DR buffs in general instead of asking for evasion enrfs and dr balancing across classes. if u just "buff dr" some dr classes will become even more obnoxious than eva stackers.

But as you and I know PA will never give nerf to evasion because part of its income comes from the target classes of evasion. why do you believe that all competitive target classes are EVASION and not DR? You can never but never compare an evasion user vs a DR user in equal terms. If they do not see how they delete Choice in a massive with more than 750 GS,  and many will tell me. It's that I've seen Choice Tank. if it is true but in exchange for what? of losing all their ap and being left with only 285 and the rest is pure DP and DR.  lately I'm feeling a disgust so but so big not for the game but for the PA company. lately the HATE I have is insane. so insane that these days report an old error but nobody remembers and I deleted the entire post

Last Edit : Jul 29, 2023, 08:23 (UTC)
# 86
On: Jul 18, 2023, 13:53 (UTC), Written by Girask

I understand your point and it's not about adapting the world to my needs. It is about exposing the clear advantage that users of evasion have. this is not a self-improvement game and I know that MMORPGs are precisely unfair in nature. But this already exceeds everything.

But we are living a stage where even evasion does a better job than Dr. That is, I have seen many DR users switch to evasion and it works much better. Even I in the past tried it and the difference was abysmal

Hmm, while good in practice, is not realistic for most players. To swap a DR build to an Eva build cost over 800 hours of actual grinding, unless the welfare in BDO just gives you gear, or you are so wealthy IRL that you can spend massive amounts of money to quickly swap. Which is the main issue of the Devs completely swaping the META like this. 

In GW2 when the META turns upside down, you'll spend at most 72 hours to regear to competitive levels. In E-Sports titles, you'll just spend at most 10 hours to adapt to a META change. 

But since getting gear is so expensive and time consuming in BDO. META shifts like this should not be allowed. Imagine grinding for 1500 hours to finally get a build to challenge the endgame whales and welfare gear players. Only for the META to completely shift a few days later and to be told, now if you want to compete you'll have to either grind for over 800 hours or spend over $10,000 USDs to do so. Yeah, that's a nice way to keep your game being a niche title.

Last Edit : Jul 29, 2023, 09:30 (UTC)
# 87

If you want a budget gear planner here you go: https://garmoth.com/character/DNsaM1ohEy

640 DR (with t2 skill add-on), 309 ap with 1 accuracy accessory

The only thing better about choice gear is that he has a lot of accessory swaps. He is missing the splendid alchemy stone though which is pretty much always better past 309 ap. So you can't really say it's better.

You saw choice get 2 skilled on his Berserker? He also got 2 skilled sometimes when he was playing evasion succ Lahn and evasion Striker. Back when he had his succ Lahn tagged he was saying with centaur belt the tankiness was similar to his cadry ring Berserker build. 

So you're saying buff DR because it only works on some classes? Similar situation for evasion. There's Striker and Mystic, the 2 classes people usually mean when they complain about evasion. Next there are Ninja and Kuno. Gauntlets have the same magic evasion but lower ranger and melee evasion. What they do have is more DR, a bit more hp and a lot better class vs class damage modifiers, which makes them quite a bit more tanky generally. Succ Ninja and awakening Ninja only has 1 evasion self buff skill. In succ it barely overlaps, in awakening it has a downtime. Succ Kuno has the same self buff and a second one on a 30 second cooldown, then there is a choice between 2 different rabam skills where 1 has another evasion self buff on a 20 something second cd. Realistically you will regularly get cc'ed with the evasion self buff expiring. Awakening Kuno has the evasion self buff on the awakening dash so the evasion buff should be up during most combos. Awakening Corsair can be tankier than Ninja/Kuno if you're getting hit by the accuracy debuff from the otters she summons. Then there is succ Lahn next in the list, it has around 5% less evasion rate than Ninja/Kuno. Think succ Corsair is somewhere here in the list. Hashashin has 7% less evasion than Ninja/Kuno. Musa/Maehwa has 9% less. Awakening ranger has no evasion passive, no evasion self buff, lower base evasion than Ninja/Kuno. It's more than 20% less evasion rate. Only reason why you can build evasion on awakening ranger because they can still onecombo a lot of people with 269 ap sicil centaur evasion offhand. Also sage slightly better than awakening ranger regarding stats (and passives) I think. Everything else is should be a lost cause on evasion except when overgearing the opponents or certain 1v1 scenarios. Another thing to consider: how much combo damage do the classes have? How much ap can they drop and still onecombo the enemy. Succ Lahn without centaur belt probably has the same combo damage as awakening Musa with centaur belt. Even if some classes look good with evasion on paper, it's not worth it either because of how the class plays or because of the combo damage it has. While evasion works on all the classes I mentioned against gearlets, they will fully despair against geared people because suddenly you can't one or even 2 combo anymore but you still get 1 comboed. Centaur belt succ Lahn doesn't have enough damage to onecombo a lot of classes and succ Lahn without evasion accessory should still be onecomboable by an awakening Berserker with equal gear value. Me right now I'm more scared of DR sage than evasion sage. If an evasion ranger can onecombo me he is also onecomboable for me as class with neither accuracy self buff nor evasion debuff.

So does that mean evasion works on those classes? Sometimes. It is the same as going cadry on a Guardian and saying DR stacking works. It only works in some scenarios. There are lots of classes you can try DR stacking but it doesn't really work. 

So DR makes you tanky on some DR classes while only giving you the basic survivability needed to not instantly die on other classes. Evasion makes you tanky on some classes while only giving you the basic survivability needed to not instantly die on other classes.

0 112
Lv 66
Saeii
Last Edit : Jul 29, 2023, 19:57 (UTC)
# 88
On: Jul 29, 2023, 09:23 (UTC), Written by Saeii

If you want a budget gear planner here you go: https://garmoth.com/character/DNsaM1ohEy

640 DR (with t2 skill add-on), 309 ap with 1 accuracy accessory

The only thing better about choice gear is that he has a lot of accessory swaps. He is missing the splendid alchemy stone though which is pretty much always better past 309 ap. So you can't really say it's better.

You saw choice get 2 skilled on his Berserker? He also got 2 skilled sometimes when he was playing evasion succ Lahn and evasion Striker. Back when he had his succ Lahn tagged he was saying with centaur belt the tankiness was similar to his cadry ring Berserker build. 

So you're saying buff DR because it only works on some classes? Similar situation for evasion. There's Striker and Mystic, the 2 classes people usually mean when they complain about evasion. Next there are Ninja and Kuno. Gauntlets have the same magic evasion but lower ranger and melee evasion. What they do have is more DR, a bit more hp and a lot better class vs class damage modifiers, which makes them quite a bit more tanky generally. Succ Ninja and awakening Ninja only has 1 evasion self buff skill. In succ it barely overlaps, in awakening it has a downtime. Succ Kuno has the same self buff and a second one on a 30 second cooldown, then there is a choice between 2 different rabam skills where 1 has another evasion self buff on a 20 something second cd. Realistically you will regularly get cc'ed with the evasion self buff expiring. Awakening Kuno has the evasion self buff on the awakening dash so the evasion buff should be up during most combos. Awakening Corsair can be tankier than Ninja/Kuno if you're getting hit by the accuracy debuff from the otters she summons. Then there is succ Lahn next in the list, it has around 5% less evasion rate than Ninja/Kuno. Think succ Corsair is somewhere here in the list. Hashashin has 7% less evasion than Ninja/Kuno. Musa/Maehwa has 9% less. Awakening ranger has no evasion passive, no evasion self buff, lower base evasion than Ninja/Kuno. It's more than 20% less evasion rate. Only reason why you can build evasion on awakening ranger because they can still onecombo a lot of people with 269 ap sicil centaur evasion offhand. Also sage slightly better than awakening ranger regarding stats (and passives) I think. Everything else is should be a lost cause on evasion except when overgearing the opponents or certain 1v1 scenarios. Another thing to consider: how much combo damage do the classes have? How much ap can they drop and still onecombo the enemy. Succ Lahn without centaur belt probably has the same combo damage as awakening Musa with centaur belt. Even if some classes look good with evasion on paper, it's not worth it either because of how the class plays or because of the combo damage it has. While evasion works on all the classes I mentioned against gearlets, they will fully despair against geared people because suddenly you can't one or even 2 combo anymore but you still get 1 comboed. Centaur belt succ Lahn doesn't have enough damage to onecombo a lot of classes and succ Lahn without evasion accessory should still be onecomboable by an awakening Berserker with equal gear value. Me right now I'm more scared of DR sage than evasion sage. If an evasion ranger can onecombo me he is also onecomboable for me as class with neither accuracy self buff nor evasion debuff.

So does that mean evasion works on those classes? Sometimes. It is the same as going cadry on a Guardian and saying DR stacking works. It only works in some scenarios. There are lots of classes you can try DR stacking but it doesn't really work. 

So DR makes you tanky on some DR classes while only giving you the basic survivability needed to not instantly die on other classes. Evasion makes you tanky on some classes while only giving you the basic survivability needed to not instantly die on other classes.

Read the beginning, part of the middle and the end of your comment.  Let's try to make this as healthy as possible. while you are right that evasion like the DR works better in some classes than others in the TOP we have the corsair with its perma 32% evasion. Then we have the Striker and Mistyc, followed by Hashashin, Lahn, Mahewa, Sorcer and finally Ninja and Kuno.  

NOTE: 
Regarding the equipment you just sent, I'm afraid it doesn't work. I already tried it and with humility I tell you that I have more GS than the one you just sent. I have reached the top of 679 DR and a ninja evasion erases me from 2 or 3 skills. It is complete and absurd madness. The problem here is that if you want to reach a high DR you won't hurt and the other problem we face is the ADDONS that people get nowadays. -50 combined dp, do you know how damaging that is? We talked about the fact that I have 679 dr and when they combo me they drop me to 590 dr. I mean, it's complete and absurd madness. that is where the main problem lies in the DR. In fact, the problem is the debuffs that you get on the floor that then leave you from full pen to full TET.  Let's look at it from this other point of view. a single addons of -20 dp can destroy an entire set of jewelry oriented to the DR. When I wear cadry I only get 20 of DR and if they apply an addons of -20 of DP I lose like 40 points of DR between the loss of the braket and loss of DR.  That's compared to only -4% evasion that usually removes an addons. For a high end user to lose 4% is absurdly low. That's why we don't have addons to kill evasion users. if it helps, but it is not enough. on the other hand, to kill a DR user it is enough to put full debuff of dp.

Last Edit : Aug 5, 2023, 21:00 (UTC)
# 89
On: Jul 18, 2023, 09:57 (UTC), Written by Catastigma

Everything is about Meta, The Meta shifted to an even heavier evasion phase, we have to build to counter what most of your opponent use,
you are not supposed to ask the game to do the work of adaptation for you, that not playing, When people stack DR, we focus AP, when people Focus Eva, we focus Accuracy, When people focus Accuracy, we focus DR. And class play a role in by how much you are have to adapt to the gear meta.

Learn, Adapt, Overcome. Tag are cheap, Accuracy Accessory are not.
For most meta class, accuracy offhand is quite enough.

BDO is not Tekken, there are no need of fair fight in a 1v1 scenario.  You must adapt to your opponent choice.

DR is fine, It's just not the current meta.

I think DR will get a decent boost too with the next boots we getting ya evasion will also be stronger but the thing not changing is our weapons  so in theory we should  take more hits with the new boots.

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