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UTC 14 : 22 Jun 18, 2024
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#Warrior
[Warrior] Room for Improvements
Jul 19, 2023, 15:54 (UTC)
1041 12
1 2
Last Edit : Jul 19, 2023, 15:57 (UTC)
# 1

Being one of the original classes in the game it is clear to see that newer classes have far more streamlined and smoother gameplay. 

- Warriors have many unprotected primary damage abilities, compared to many other classes especially newer classes

   - Even primary abilities that do have SG/FG do not have it for the full animation of the ability(other classses have FG/SA for the entire duration of their animation)

   - For PVE you are forced to take core Frenzied which you don't really want for PVP. Frenzied should have baseline FG. That would give room to take atleast SG or FG for one mobility ability (Solar Flare or Balance Strike)

- Warriors require far higher APM then other classes to play Optimally, yet are not rewarded and are A tier compared to S/S+ tier grinders (more skill, less reward) 

    - Q Cancel 

    - Space Q Cancel

     - C swap rotation for max dps 

- Warrior pack to pack mobility/speed could be improved 

   - Headchase distance could be increased

- Warrior general flow and rotation could be slightly improved

- Warrior having so many unprotected abilities makes the class really lacking in larger scale PVP

   - People still think warriors have lingering SA.... its time to moderinzie the class and bring it in line with other classes after systematic nerfs to the class over the years

   - Q block? Yes what is that disintegrates faster then you can blink......

There are far better and more experienced warriors then myself but those are some quick thoughts. Hopefully we see some overall improvements to the class for PVE and PVP. Would love to hear thoughts from more experienced warriors.

   

Last Edit : Jul 19, 2023, 19:21 (UTC)
# 2

I find Gravedigging being interruptible some times. Not sure what's going on since it has been tweaked many times throughout the years and i only ever played for small periods (max 4 months) before stopping for long periods 1 or more year.

2023 is the first year i commited fully with the goal to stay. So i dont know at which state it is currently.

But i only noticed it while recieving a CC. Is it Resistance dependant? Does DR stat affect it?

I dont know the details of its background function.

Other than that no issues.

I find the balance of relying on Forward Guard and Q and S Block good as long as you can maintain them for those few seconds you're going for the kill so to speak.

I agree on Frenzied Strikes Skill having Forward Guard and not relying on the core skill. Mostly due to open world pvp balance since its a bad skill at pvp so when you have to grind and you might have to fight for the spot you could be at disantavantage against others that might have a protected attack skill.

That's why i find Solar Flare in such a case to be more a ''Backstab'' attack since it will be unprotected in such a case without the core skill.

However Succesion's equivalent is protected from last time i noticed and its a waste to not have the Core Skill which is a fine pick.

Then again its a PvP option mostly because Frenzied Strikes is a slow animation PvE ability so again you'll be at disadvantage in Elvia for example having a highly vulnerable PvE skill (Another Primary Skill to use in PvE against groups).

In terms of speed and transition to defense i find the usage of Preawakening Skills plus Piercing Spear/ Frenzied Spear/ Shield Tide/ 

Charging Thrust/ Frenzied Dash very good especially 1vs1 the downside could be RBF vulnerability while recieving AoE damage.

In terms of flow of combos Awakening is excellent when it comes to transitioning from x tactic to x tactic. Succesion not as much but ok.

I will lie if i say that i know whats going on with Block effectiveness because i have never tested how it functions where you actually fight people past 650gs today.

All i can tell is that Warrior on Awakening and Accuracy/ DR/ Human Damage/ HP/ Crit is a beast.

Succesion Warriors can even go 1100+ Evasion with Sicil/ Cents/ Distos/ Tungrads and be hard to take down while trading off some damage due to Succesion's Combo's not being as effective when it comes to PvP with another tradeoff with that spec/ build which is trading off your chance to deal with Evasion Players. However the build has some expensive requirements where you really need those ''PEN Accesories''

As you can see its not as effective at TET Accesory level in terms of damage (not even the base stats) compared to its Accuracy/ DR Equivallent.

So i would call Awakening Accuracy/ DR/ HP/ Human Damage Warrior low APM whilst Succesion is similar on the same Build just less effective to Awakening Kit but quite high APM for PvP if you go Evasion/ Hybrid.

So i only know this: Frenzied Strikes (Pure PvE Skill) needs inbuilt Forward Guard

About Large Scale PvP i hope Succesion with Evasion wont be a mandatory way to reliably mitigate AoE damage making it possible to reach your target and do some damage at least before dying to more AoE because i find this to be the only reliable way.

Last Edit : Jul 20, 2023, 11:37 (UTC)
# 3

other classes just fly while warrior can't even have a longer travel distance for headchase skill!

it should travel with at least +50% more than it is now...

3 37
Lv 61
Deus
Last Edit : Jul 21, 2023, 06:40 (UTC)
# 4
On: Jul 19, 2023, 19:00 (UTC), Written by LordDagon

what in the nine hells is this.

Last Edit : Jul 21, 2023, 12:53 (UTC)
# 5
Écrit le : 19 juil. 2023, 15:54 (UTC), par : lZepl

Being one of the original classes in the game it is clear to see that newer classes have far more streamlined and smoother gameplay. 

- Warriors have many unprotected primary damage abilities, compared to many other classes especially newer classes

   - Even primary abilities that do have SG/FG do not have it for the full animation of the ability(other classses have FG/SA for the entire duration of their animation)

   - For PVE you are forced to take core Frenzied which you don't really want for PVP. Frenzied should have baseline FG. That would give room to take atleast SG or FG for one mobility ability (Solar Flare or Balance Strike)

- Warriors require far higher APM then other classes to play Optimally, yet are not rewarded and are A tier compared to S/S+ tier grinders (more skill, less reward) 

    - Q Cancel 

    - Space Q Cancel

     - C swap rotation for max dps 

- Warrior pack to pack mobility/speed could be improved 

   - Headchase distance could be increased

- Warrior general flow and rotation could be slightly improved

- Warrior having so many unprotected abilities makes the class really lacking in larger scale PVP

   - People still think warriors have lingering SA.... its time to moderinzie the class and bring it in line with other classes after systematic nerfs to the class over the years

   - Q block? Yes what is that disintegrates faster then you can blink......

There are far better and more experienced warriors then myself but those are some quick thoughts. Hopefully we see some overall improvements to the class for PVE and PVP. Would love to hear thoughts from more experienced warriors.

   

I think the best improvement for Warrior would be that :

- No more charge on Reckless with the creation of a Core skill.
- Forward Guard on Frenzied Strikers & Ankle but removing Bound CC.
- Make Headchase faster and longer with better skills connection.
- Fix Slashing the Dead bug, since reboot the skill isn't working correctly due to the fact they removed the collision, I just used it on a friend in Battle Arena and Slashing dealt only 5% damage beacuse I was "too close".
- Maybe removing linger crit on Ankle Break and add directly 100% on Pulverize, Tempest & Frenzied Strikes because it's making those skills weak if you don't linger them.

That's mostly it for awakening. Giving more would make it way too strong.

Last Edit : Jul 21, 2023, 11:32 (UTC)
# 6
On: Jul 19, 2023, 15:54 (UTC), Written by lZepl

Being one of the original classes in the game it is clear to see that newer classes have far more streamlined and smoother gameplay. 

- Warriors have many unprotected primary damage abilities, compared to many other classes especially newer classes

   - Even primary abilities that do have SG/FG do not have it for the full animation of the ability(other classses have FG/SA for the entire duration of their animation)

   - For PVE you are forced to take core Frenzied which you don't really want for PVP. Frenzied should have baseline FG. That would give room to take atleast SG or FG for one mobility ability (Solar Flare or Balance Strike)

- Warriors require far higher APM then other classes to play Optimally, yet are not rewarded and are A tier compared to S/S+ tier grinders (more skill, less reward) 

    - Q Cancel 

    - Space Q Cancel

     - C swap rotation for max dps 

- Warrior pack to pack mobility/speed could be improved 

   - Headchase distance could be increased

- Warrior general flow and rotation could be slightly improved

- Warrior having so many unprotected abilities makes the class really lacking in larger scale PVP

   - People still think warriors have lingering SA.... its time to moderinzie the class and bring it in line with other classes after systematic nerfs to the class over the years

   - Q block? Yes what is that disintegrates faster then you can blink......

There are far better and more experienced warriors then myself but those are some quick thoughts. Hopefully we see some overall improvements to the class for PVE and PVP. Would love to hear thoughts from more experienced warriors.

   

Compared to meta classes, Warrior might feel less protected.

Compared to all classes, Warrior is one of the most protected classes if played well. It is capable of very high mobility and very great stat scaling as well.

So I cannot agree with this at all.

12 73
Lv 65
Frixs
Last Edit : Jul 21, 2023, 12:53 (UTC)
# 7
Écrit le : 21 juil. 2023, 11:31 (UTC), par : Frixs

Compared to meta classes, Warrior might feel less protected.

Compared to all classes, Warrior is one of the most protected classes if played well. It is capable of very high mobility and very great stat scaling as well.

So I cannot agree with this at all.

Thing is, if Warrior was that protected, why I barely some ? In NW I barely see Warrior, I even see some Warriors getting refused to trial unless they play another class.

In one vs one, Warrior can be strong for sure but he won't be the strongest. I can tell you to be "protected" like you said, it's asking a lot of knowledge and effert just to be decently protected meanwhile most classes in the game right now are perma Iframe + SA + FG without needing a block.

Our point is easy, why do we have to put so much effort in this class when others do better with less effort ? We are only asking some QoL in order to simply things. We don't ask a damage buff.
No, just decent change since the class didn't got a serious rework in 2021. 

If you look what I said earlier, he just needs some changed on 4 skills.

Reckless Blow is unusable currently in mass PVP for two reasons. Charging it will kill because you are in SA and you lose this SA just before the end of the skill. Plus not charging it make the damage pointless.

If I do quick math : [(616 (total AAP) x14.20)x5] / 53.8% = 812,9.
That's the brut damage of the skill without charging, then you have to nerf the damage again with DR + EVA, so basically not charging it will like 300 - 400 HP max.
The reason why we need a Core skill on it is because most of our Cores are outdated, having a Core on it would be nice. But if we don't get it, it's whatever.


Frenzied Strikes
& Flow: Ankle Break have useless CC. The two them have Bound, which make them unusable in a combo at the beginning or middle. Having at least a Forward Guard on it would improve Warrior's Awakening protections.

Head Chase needs a rework. The current Iframe barely works but that's not the most important. The most important is the fact the skill is slow, with bad range and doesn't have any skills connections beside Overwhelm.
Just increase the speed and the distance a bit and improving connection would be great.

Slashing the Dead is totally bugged. When you use it in a combo or SA trade, the skill doesn't apply his damage correctly due to jump and the no collision. It needs to be fixed.

The fact Pulverize, Flow: Tempest & Frenzied Strikes don't have 100% crit or at least 50% in PVP is stupid since we can linger crit them. Or them give them crit, or them improve Flow: Ankle Break by giving it a Forward Guard like I said before.

In my honest opinion just changing those points would be enough for Warrior Awakening.

Last Edit : Jul 21, 2023, 15:31 (UTC)
# 8

Just to re-iterate the above poster which I fully agree with:

[Quote]:
> Our point is easy, why do we have to put so much effort in this class when others do better with less effort ? We are only asking some QoL in order to simply things. We don't ask a damage buff.
No, just decent change since the class didn't got a serious rework in 2021. 

[/Quote]

It doesn't really make sense why warrior's primary abilities do not have SA for the entire duration from the beginning frame to the ending frame:

1) Reckless
2) Grave Digging
3) Slashing

- Issues with hitbox where it doesn't even do intended damage

The above 3 abilities should have SA from the starting frame to the ending frame the same as other classes.

Headchase:

Would be nice if it had slightly increased speed and distance. The only thing that makes it palatable is being able to:

- Head chase > Solar Q cancel 

- Head chase > Balance Q cancel

(combining the two for nifty mobility, not the easiest thing to do)

Frenzied:

- Needs Baseline FG

In short QoL improvements, bug fixes and having our existing SA abilities actually function properly would be a step in the right direction. Playing other classes I see that I can easily maintain Iframe, SA/FG without jumping through hoops of cancels etc with far less APM and in many cases I can achieve higher throughput as well.

Last Edit : Jul 21, 2023, 18:09 (UTC)
# 9
On: Jul 21, 2023, 06:40 (UTC), Written by WhySoSeeryus

what in the nine hells is this.

A blasphemy come to think of it. Evasion Warriors exist. I didn't believe it myself but its true.

The above is just a ''Gear'' example that it can work just only with PEN Accesories. I wouldn't run it at all personally. XD

Its a ''Meme'' However it works at feeling tanky. I find it a waste actually to run Evasion on Warrior it makes the class underperform since it doesn't play by its strengths.

However there are Succesion Warrior min-max hybrid builds. I consider them ''Experimental'' tbh since its not a class for Evasion really though some do PvP with such builds.

Last Edit : Jul 23, 2023, 20:11 (UTC)
# 10

Looking at AoS ranking in EU we can see there's only one Warrior at top 100.

I hope they do actively monitor the whole activity and see what went wrong.

I couldn't believe it but as someone who plays BDO because of ''Warrior'' purely i never imagined how bad it is.

Feels like a forgotten relic.

Tried Succesion.

The Kit becomes good again building combos around Lingering Crit and they do focus on smoother transitions involving ''Counter/ Spinning Slash/ Ground Slash'' with a majority of the Combos utilizing Ground Smash/ Earth Tremor and good transitions into movement skills.

Pulverize/ Solar Flare still continue to work as they used to 3 years back and are still good and lastly Shield Strike finaly becomes a filler that doesn't mess with the combos.

Its weakness in PvE seems to be bosses compared to Awakening. A Rift boss that takes 1 minute with Awakening Kit might take triple the time on Succesion due to lack of burst. Reminds me of Nova's strengths against Bosses in Succesion but weakness in Grinding.

If the class becomes again viable in PvP that would be a good thing.

The skill ceiling to play it at its strongest increases a bit and does no longer feel boring or repetitive but i find its just on the players side to adapt and develop the muscle memory.

It still needs work but maybe it'll catch up eventually and enter a new Era hopefully becoming very viable in PvP Large Scale Content and on par with modern classes.

With that being said Awakening is left behind.

It also seems with the current capabilities of classes in this meta, skills such as Frenzied Spear fail alot and Seismic Strike became usefull...

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