It depends on the circumstances. If whaty you are telling me is an alliance of maxed out guilds totaling 300 members are coordinating to prevent you from making any progress in the game and literally noone is amicable to a discussion on how you can rectify the situarion then I dunno if I can imagine this thing happening out of the blue. Your name was simply chosen out of a hat at random to be the directed target of a several thousand manhour campaign. In reality big guilds are propped up by a lot of people and usually at least one of those people will be pretty reasonable. If you message them and have a discussion that you would like the dec to be dropped and you're just a lifeskilling guild with no interest in pvp then more than likely at least one of those officers will be willing to kill the war for you.

If its a small guild that has beef with you try to work it out with them. see what they want in exchange for dropping the dec. If its reasonable, think about giving it to them. Making concessions for the good of your members is one of the burdens of leadership. If they are mega mega small. ..like I think I heard you mention its just one person with their own guild deccing you. ..then just ignore him. swap away when he shows up. stop talking to him. stop giving that player the content they want. (For the record I think this is one of those situations where GMs should be involved. A person harassing you endlessly for no reason is harassment and should be delt with as such.)

Omg... again, you don't read correctly: "Didn't talk about them"! Meaning -> I didn't talk about them!

"Why not talk about them?" -> yeah, why not, do it if you want, no problem with that. But since you're answering to me, stick to what I said, it'll help you answer ON the points I made.

And you're now talking about the devs? I was mentionning the bullies and harrassers.....

Omg, again, you misunderstood. It's incredibly annoying to try and have a conversation with someone as blind as you: can't read a few words correctly neither understand the meaning of what we say!

Many people here have told you already that you're off subject, so many times, but you keep going on without questioning yourself?

It's too hard to go back and forth in each conversation because you can't go on and make the topic evolve.

You know what, as you're unable to understand a word of what I say, why not stop trying to give it a try? Just ignore my posts, I ignore yours from now on. I'll only answer to the ones who can follow.

Now hold on one second here. PvP players have not had some superior freedom to you for the last 7 years. When the striker walks up to you at your spot you and he have the same freedom available. You could just as easily choose to fight him for the spot or make the choice that you dont want to fight and would rather leave. Its not like when you created your character there was a little option you picked that says you cant ever fight. You just dont want to have to pvp. Thats completely fair, but its a choice you are continually making. Having people ask you to DFS for better or worse is a pretty widely agreed upon way of settling the contest of the spot in a polite manner. If you want to forefeit the spot rather than having to pvp you are choosing that, and the consequences of those choices for wheel or woe."

True.

But I'd rather be fair to a guy already there. We all know how it is when we grind: buffs on, scrolls on, probably already switched several times to find a spot available, not much time left to play...

We all know it.

So I'd rather not ruin the farm of another. DFS is ok if agreed by both sides. If forced, it's unfair. And saying "I'm coming and I grind now so leave/switch" is not fair either, you'd have the same problem after that when a guy comes for you too anyway. If you accept those principles, it's not the case of everybody. And the choice is also free to everyone.

Let's be honest, nobody wants to be bothered while grinding.

I've never annoyed anyone on their spots. As long as I don't have any buff on yet, I consider they have the priority. For me, it's that, being fair.

But that's my opinion of course.

Thats very true. I also dont interrupt people who are farming. Even war targets I leave alone if theyre farming (Unless they are known jerks, or did something bad.)

DFS is just an emergent community soloution to decide in a concise manner who gets the rights to farm the spot. Its existence is to prevent players from having to use the everpresent backup soloution where both players are just using the limits of the game engine to determing who gets it. Not wanting to DFS isnt all that bad in my opinion. I dont hold it against any player that denies my DFS request. It just means that we are moving onto the next ruleset to find a soloution. (I dont usually like the outcomes of this soloution, and the end result is usually a lot more messy so I prefer DFS to this.)

So the first soloution is to dec and wait for the dec to go through. This takes a long time, and its not always possible. The person might have guild protection, or they might be in a non war ready guild, or they might be unguilded. Even when this is successful most of the time it ends up in a huge GvG rather than me getting to grind.  Secondly I can try to grind them out of the zone. Usually i pick a few packs of mobs and keep them cleared causing a cavity in the other player's rotation. Ill slowly expand this cavity scalping more and more packs but never take any more than I can keep killed so that they never get these mobs again and their rotation is penalized by a lot. I may also link in chat whenever I get a rare item to get under the skin of the opposing player and frusterate them into leaving sooner. Third I may begin short flagging, where I flag up and deal a lot of damage to the other player while they are grinding. I dont kill them (or I try not too) so I dont take the karma penalty, but rather i just make their grind more dangerous so that if they make a mistake they could end up dying and/or ruining their efficienty.  Fourth I may mob feed the player to cost them crystals/consumables.

Now personally, I find these soloutions to be pretty distasteful. I would rather ask for a DFS and either win or lose in a monute or so and go about my day. In my case even if the other player dont want to DFS I usually wont press the issue and I'll just grind somewhere else, but these are the soloutions I have used in the past. I find them to be both long, wasteful, and toxic, but when you are looking at the limits of the system to decide who gets the spot these are the sort of soloutions you might find. Thats why many players prefer the short simplicity of DFS.

Exactly, anyone can keep killing a Griefer, but I can't kill them anymore without losing Kramapoints. That is the crucial point. No one can win such a fight with a stubborn Griefer. Everyone is then pushed to use their Marnis Realm. And for all the grind spots that are not in Marnis Realm yet, it could get even worse. I suspect that most of the Griefers will then be in those spots.

This will lead to these spots also being available in Marnis Realm. The next step will be to remove the time limit of Marni's realm completely, because most people will use it and players will get used to staying only in Marni's realm. Of course, this all assumes that there are many Griefers who will take advantage of this and be persistent. We've always had a problem with Griefer. Because of them, these changes are coming now. And since Marnis Realm is not a solution for all spots and not 24/7, the prediction of many players that I reproduce here is quite possible. I´m maybe not strong enough with my 635 GS, but i´m willing to fight for my relative freedom.

With this outlook, I wonder if that is desirable. Do we want the open world to be "taken away" from us because of such players? Wouldn't it be better to think about it again, if there can't be other ways.

It is in our nature that our perception, as soon as a major problem is solved, we perceive the next major problems. So as long as there are Griefers, as long as there are opportunities and ways for them, players will continue to demand to restrict or change systems, no matter how small these options are. This usually not only limits the Griefers, but everyone.

I have experienced this several times in other MMORPGs. It is always the same story that is repeated in other ways.

You know what? I've been many times disgusted by the DFS policy.

When I started the game, many bullied me and came with no "Hi", no word, nothing except that "dfs" as soon as they arrived. I remember I was farming at Manshaums when I discovered it for the first time... well, not discovered it, forced into it more like. I mean some random guy came along and just said "dfs". I remember greeting him but he didn't even "hello" me back. He repeated "dfs".

I didn't know what it was by that time and he was not even polite so I ignored him and returned to my grind.

😆 Wrong choice: he came onto me and pked me!

I rezzed and came back of course, wanting to continue my grind but he was there and killed me again.

I came back again, he killed me again, in 1 shot again, and he started accusing me of karmabombing (by that time, I didn't even know dfs so imaging "karmabombing!"), except that I was with my highest equipment which was Narchillan I think!

Well, I had to face several times raging people like that. I mean, most of them just come onto new players and say "dfs"! Not even a "hello", not even a question like "ok to dfs?", not even an explanation of what it is?!

I fully understand new players in this situation because it's really annoying in game to have his farm broken!

And  --  speaking for myself only here  --  I don't care about that! I mean I don't take it bad, I'm not that kind of person. I spit on the moment of course, but I move on fast and I even like a little provocation because I joined a MMORPG for that kind of excitement too! I even come back on the spot to propose a real duel if someone pks me now! I appreciate some provocators... if they assume and don't run away like cowards! (as many do! 😅 )

But I'm not a rager myself so for me there's no real issue... but I imagine for all the raging new players who take it really bad, it must be something! :D

I understand them, even though I think they take it too personally.

I mean it's a game, at some point we all join a MMORPG to find some excitement online with other people!

Now, reading you, makes me feel a bit lighter about the dfs topic. I've never liked dfs because high players used to bully me when I had nothing so they disgusted me of it.

But the way you see it can gain me in the excitement of it. By far I prefer real duels and not fight for a spot but I might reconsider when someone proposes it to me now. As long as he is polite!