I want to keep this as focused and concise as possible.

This in in response to https://www.kr.playblackdesert.com/ko-KR/shutdown/closetime?shutDownType=0

Three things to discuss here.

1)Karma is family wide

2)Guild declarations will not result in pvp without karma loss unless both guilds declare each other

3)Marni's realm can be used once every other hour

I hope to address all of these points and explain why I believe moving in this direction will unequivocally harm the foundation of Black Desert.  I would also like to dispell the notion that only griefers and gankers would want to encourage world PvP, and show that the evolving player driven content generated by PvP interactions is the lifeblood of Black Desert.

1) Karma is family wide

This change targets red players.  On its own it is an understandable change, forcing red players into an even tighter corner.  This is also consistent with a long series of changes over the past few years that have made it harder to play red.  The crystal preset change gave some new life to red players, so I can understand this one even if I don't agree with it personally.

Functionally this pushes people to go red for shorter periods, and never let themselves go so deeply red that they cannot participate in other aspect of the game until they even out their karma.  As a side effect, it empowers "karma bombing" aka removal of gear to create a creater gearscore differential and "nuke" another player's karma when the two of you engage in flagged combat with one another.

But this brings us to point #2 as this change makes the consequences of that one even worse.

2)Guild declarations will not result in pvp without karma loss unless both guilds declare each other

This is a one of the worst changes that could come to BDO.  As it is, Guilds offer refuge for players.  The systems within the game incentivize players to join with a guild (guild passives, CTG, payouts, daily pay, node war) and the guild you join will change depending on what you want out of the game.  Guilds are the starting point for a player's experience with player driven content. For context, my guild is a lifeskill focused guild with a dedicated core of geared players who use our gear and game experience to fight off griefers and gankers. 

As it stands, the only way to stop someone from griefing you is to flag on them and fight them, or to have your guild declare war on their guild - resulting in more fighting, often with more involved parties but at no karma loss.  Declarations take time to go into effect, so the player issuing a dec must do so with a certain level of commitment.  It's faster to swap channels than it is to wait for a dec, so generally this option is taken defensively.

Flagging up on someone gives you a limited number of kills before you run out of karma.  This is done to send a message such as "I will fight you if you won't talk to me about why you are grinding on my head" or "I have better gear than you, take this nonsense elsewhere".

Declaring war on someone sends a much louder and broader message, and not just to the individual creating the negative experience.  It also immediately sends a message to their rest of their guild.  I have had dozens of experiences where a player attempts to karma bomb, gank, or otherwise grief a member of our guild, which then results in us declaring war on their guild, and subsequently leads to the leadership of said guild asking how they can resolve this situation without causing further fighting.  I have seen griefers lose their guild over this type of behavior.  I have also recieved written apologies from people who have attempted to ruin a guild mate's time.  On the other end, we have also had two-week long wars with multiple hundreds of kills that forces concession from the aggressor.  Either way, we always back our guildies up and my guild mates and I have a great time navigating this space together.

We have an opportunist who tries to troll, or steal a spot, etc and then we have a response to that, which then generates a response and on and on. 

Why am I bothering to type all this?  Because all of this is fun!  It makes the game feel like a world.  Many players reading this might see the whole process of dealing with situations like this exhausting and be turned off by it. However, more often than not, I recieve positive feedback from all involved parties at the conclusion of these types of interactions.   

This is taking place accross dozens of guilds every hour and is the driving force behind the "endgame" experience of BDO.  Speaking for myself, my gearing journey would have ended a year ago if I didn't feel the need to gear to the point where I would always be capable of fighting for a guildie.  Every part of our experience - from hard and sweaty pve grinding hours to lifeskill efficiency spreadsheets to BA duel nights - all of it feeds into the the idea that we may eventually have to declare war on a guild with better players and better gear and we must be ready to respond. 

By forcing two-sided declarations, the griefers in these scenarios are given more power.  If you get declared on because one of your members is doing something untoward, you can simply ignore the dec and now the offended party has no choice but to give up or go red (which, remember, is now family-wide and will prevent that person from even being able to interact normally with the game).  If you are the type of player who loves to troll, there is no longer any realistic repurcussion in front of you.  Grinding on top of someone's head will necessarily go unpunished the majority of the time.  This aspect of the change will actually hurt players who do not want to have negative player interactions.

Finally we have point 3, which I saved for the last because the change itsself isn't terrible but it does speak to a philosphy that I beleive is counter to the original design of Black Desert.

3)Marni's realm can be used once every other hour

The addition of the Marni's Realm function allieviated the DFS culture surrounding especially orcs at the time of its launch, and works as a buffer that has been mostly successful and healthy.  Some people only have an hour to grind and those people can't always be bothered with the types of interactions I detailed above.  They just want to make some progress.  Marni's Realm offers that.  It also has a secondary effect of allowing courteous players to give their rotation up to a player should the newcomer be out of server swaps and Marni's time, or otherwise unable to go elsewhere.  I generally only use marni's realm as a way to give my rotation up because I personally like fostering a positive vibe and this tool lets me do so without impacting my experience too badly.

Increasing the amount of time a player spends in a solo instance, however, runs counter to the philosphy of an open world sandbox style game.  If Black Desert is to continue onward as a mostly player-driven-content game, then the goal should be to increase player interaction, not decrease it.  Additionally, I believe that most of us have seen the slow death created by instanced content.  Many of us found a home here on Black Desert because we wanted to escape the lobby style play that has become normative in other MMORPGs.  I think it is safe to say that a lot of players will see this as an incentive to grind and hour then afk an hour and repeat should they hope to see consistent gains.

On its face, I understand this change and wouldn't speak directly against it, but it represents a change in attitude in the direction of the game and that - combined with the other changes - make me fear for the future of this game.

TL;DR - Black Desert runs off of player driven content.  If you meet player expectation exactly, the resulting gameplay loops will eventually become stale.  Many veteran players will leave the game as a result of this change as it undermines their ability to interact meaningfully with the world and community as a whole.

World PvP is the starting point of the majority of player created content in Black Desert.  If you cut this system off at it's knees, you are removing the kinds of interactions that end in stories we collect during the years we have played.

Why do you feel that you need to make another thread about this subject when there are already multiple ones?

Why do you feel the need to rag on someone's opinion?

I thought about this but went with a new thread for two reasons. First, I'm making an assumption that a wide spread of feedback on this topic might send a better message than a deep delve on a single thread.  Second, I don't hold the same point of view as the individuals on the other threads, and I didn't find it appropriate to insert my thoughts into their topic in such a comprehensive way.

I never thought I would say this, but in this case I hate that I and many others was right. I opened several threads a year ago fearing exactly this development.

Unfortunately, this will be the future of BDO. There will be less and less room for the old players who loved the open world sandbox PvX vision with all its social dynamics, where we created our own stories beyond any story cutscenes.

Have you not heard of the arsha servers? You can have as much open world pvp as you desire without detriment to your karma. 
I think they need to create more Arsha servers to accommodate the pvp cohort. I also belive these current changes will bring both more new players and many returning players that left the game because they do not like forced pvp.

The usual purepose of one-sided guild decs is usually to attempt to deter griefers at grind spots. Players who are concerned about the change to one-sided war decs do not want an all out PvP festa with no consequences. They want to have the option of being able to defend their spot from griefers. By telling players to go to Arsha you are telling them to go from one form of griefing (players grinding through their rotations or over top of them with no way to stop them without being karma bombed which you can see already on Season and Olvia servers) to another where the griefer comes back over and over again preventing the player from doing any grinding because there are no consequences to PvP on Arsha. 

Yes, Marni realms do provide a way to avoid PvP and griefing, but I think if PA is going to provide so much solo grind time through marni realms, then what is the point of changing the Karma system or changing war decs if the players are never going to be out in the open world to make use of those systems in the first place? They could easily just buff Marni realm time and locations and make PvE focused players happy.

what I and many other ow players want is a mixed experience. If i wanted just pvp i can go to BA at any time. I can go to RBF. I can que AoS or whatever. When im grinding the idea of protecting myself from other players is exciting. Meeting other players in the open world and getting a feel for their intentions, wether they want my spot or not and if they do the fight that occurs is exciting for me. with this update, that content will be gone forever.

Well said. Emergent gameplay around limited open world resources is the very essence of BDO. It drives people to foster relationships with a good guild even if they have no interest in participating in node wars or sieges or structured pvp. A good guild defends its members and in doing so creates organic, unpredictable pvp content that is exciting and evergreen.

I refuse to believe there is some wave of "grief decs" that are actually impacting the ability for people to play the game. The absolute worst-case scenario is a simple server hop and you're a ghost in the wind from someone trying to kill you. It just does not happen. It's a good yarn to spin about how scary open world pvp is, but the reality is that if I don't want to pvp I can play the game for months on end without another player flagging up to fight me. It's a change that does the opposite of what it intends to do, crafted to solve a problem which doesn't exist.

"Grinding on top of someone's head will necessarily go unpunished the majority of the time.  This aspect of the change will actually hurt players who do not want to have negative player interactions."

This is the core of it. The current system allows for resolution of griefers through PvP, providing you wait out the 15 minutes for the declaration and have the ability and gear to defend your spot. This proposed change, however, empowers griefing.