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UTC 11 : 59 May 14, 2024
CEST 13 : 59 May 14, 2024
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My issues with dec changes: Toxic players and the ability to retaliate.
Jul 27, 2023, 23:19 (UTC)
662 9
Last Edit : Jul 27, 2023, 23:19 (UTC)
# 1

Family Name: LovelyCheesecake

Region (NA/EU): NA

Suggestions/Comments: I personally do not see the point in the dec changes if the karma system will be family wide and marni realm changes. Griefers will come take your karma, and you won't be able to defend your spot while they laugh and talk shit ruining your grind. Currently, you can dec and fight them off or make it harder for them to grief you, harder for people to harass a grinder and take advantage of karma system. I hear marni realm will be changed to be available every hour so if one dont want to pvp as they grind they can go there if this change occurs. They already made most wars and sieges capped, what else will one grind gear for if not open world pvp through guild decs?


If a player harasses a friend or another player in game, the decs exist to retaliate and protect these players not just from grind spots but from dramas, desputes or just plain unwanted aggression directed to a player for no reason at all. PA wont do much with a ticket unless it breaks ToS WITH PROOF. I rather show up and stop the toxic player[s] myself with or without my guildmates. I grinded long for my gear and knowledge in pvp to do exactly this. There are so many pvp guides and videos to help anyone learn themselves. Changing the decs will only make it harder to protect friends, guildmates and players from toxic players and harassment in game. In other pve mmos people get massive egos with elitism or pride and bring down new/old players for their own entertainment, deccing them makes it harder for toxic players from keep that mouth running.

Consequences follow, guilds remove the toxic member so war decs get dropped. It also brings gvgs which open up pvp entertainment on both sides. Which helps people learn things, get better at their pvp skills, desire more gear to fight back and build bonds with those they fight side by side with to protect themselves or retaliate agaisnt their enemy decs. Those who dont want to participate in the pvp aspect of the game go into protection and recieve less issues from war targets and decs. There are so many ways to avoid pvp, changing decs will just make it worse for everyone not just the pvp community. Defending myself and people in need is my sole reason i went to the pvp scene myself many years ago once i was harassed, hunted and camped at nodes unable to defend myself and my own guild years ago. I have been grinding on bdo and pvping in multiple guilds since 2017, pve and pvp, hardcore and casual. There are better alternatives like my suggestion below.

My Suggestion:
Do not take the current dec system away, instead work on protections guilds can give to players. Change protected members so they cant get flagged on outside grind spots and the protected member cant buff/heal other players outside of grind spots to exploit the system. In grind spots people who flag on protected members will lose karma and protected members can support their grind party with heals/buffs during their grind.

Last Edit : Jul 28, 2023, 05:20 (UTC)
# 2

Ok don't change the dec system but, allow the guild getting dec'ed to be able to send protection to like 75 of it's members, for a small silver fee. 

Last Edit : Jul 28, 2023, 05:45 (UTC)
# 3
On: Jul 28, 2023, 05:20 (UTC), Written by EgoAdAstra

Ok don't change the dec system but, allow the guild getting dec'ed to be able to send protection to like 75 of it's members, for a small silver fee. 

Its already in game and for 1 player is enough, situation where all of your guildmates will encounter members of other guild is close to impossible in current state. New players repeat this but its not true it never happend too many servers too many spots, not everyone grinding, 99% members in this "bad actor" guild do not care about his action. After those changes will be worse because I will be able to enter your spot and just start grinding while you cant do anything without worries about your Karma. If karma is family wide then those who were red will remain red they will dont care, after all relog to low geared character, turn off crystals and restore karma anywhere, go back to your main.

Last Edit : Jul 28, 2023, 05:48 (UTC)
# 4
On: Jul 28, 2023, 05:45 (UTC), Written by Equben

Its already in game and for 1 player is enough, situation where all of your guildmates will encounter members of other guild is close to impossible in current state. New players repeat this but its not true it never happend too many servers too many spots, not everyone grinding, 99% members in this "bad actor" guild do not care about his action. After those changes will be worse because I will be able to enter your spot and just start grinding while you cant do anything without worries about your Karma. If karma is family wide then those who were red will remain red they will dont care, after all relog to low geared character, turn off crystals and restore karma anywhere, go back to your main.

That's kinda hard to do since I mostly grind on Arsha or Seasonal PvP channels. But I'll give you a B for effort anyways.

Last Edit : Jul 28, 2023, 05:52 (UTC)
# 5

every stick has two ends, stronger players throw weaker players out of the grinding places, red players kill the horse riders as soon as they cross the safe area a bit, my Shai was killed several times from behind when weeding, it's her own fault, it's a pvp game and she just had the honor of meeting the brave red player

Last Edit : Jul 28, 2023, 10:34 (UTC)
# 6

When a guy comes and harasses me to steal the rotation I'm on, it's normal he gets red karma.

To avoid it, he bypasses by war dec to avoid the lost of karma. That's wrong, he should be punished but bypasses it.

There's not only people who are killed by you because they bother you on your rota, there's also the other way around: you, being killed by a griefer while you're grinding.

This new system is ok, if they do shorter the switch-time server. 5 minutes seem reasonable.

Last Edit : Jul 28, 2023, 11:56 (UTC)
# 7
On: Jul 28, 2023, 05:20 (UTC), Written by EgoAdAstra

Ok don't change the dec system but, allow the guild getting dec'ed to be able to send protection to like 75 of it's members, for a small silver fee. 

Not bad, maybe have an option in guilds to enable or disable pvp usuing things already placed and newer things. For example:

Undecable guilds are guilds without nodes or territories. If a guild that owns a node/territory tries to dec a guild that doesnt onwn one, they get "Guild is not ready for war". This is the current system. The bypass to this is exactly that, be in a guild without any nodes/territories AND have no current decs up.

Solution (?):

Have guilds choose three options: pvp guild, pvx guild or pve guild. 

Pvp guild: Can be decced by anyone with short timers and largely increase dec limits or make it unlimited. They can only dec pvp guilds and have no consequences for pking enemy war targets anywhere outside safe zones. The guild will automatically give a warning of this to all members who try to/have joined of the change to pvp guild and what it entitles. Guilds that take this role are the only guilds that can node war and siege and can dec other pvp guilds with low timers of 1-5min to help prep players for the incoming pvp. Members can merc to any pvp guild and can cancel the contract for 100mill to go back to their guild. Can not cancel during war, only before. No protections for pvp members.

Pvx guild: for those who want pvp and pve. Keep the current system and apply the protection services i mentioned. These guilds can only dec a limited amount (2max) unlike pvp guilds. Guild bosses grant players pvp protection (stops griefing during guild boss scrolls) and might as well give this for world bosses too. Members here can only merc to wars/sieges once a week. Pvx players can still be attacked by war targets dec on them in grind spots and open world. Getting decced by other guilds will warn the guild every 5min and have the usual 15min timer. Players here get a taste of pve and pvp with a balance of both. Feel free to add thoughts and ideas to make it balanced.

Pve guild: this is for players who do not want to pvp. They will not be able to be decced at all by pvp guilds unless the pve guild has an active dec on another guild. (If the pve guild decides to attack another, they can be attacked themselves.) No loopholes, dont want pvp? Don't send a dec. Pve guilds can dec any guilds for grind spot disputes but only in grind spots can they be killed or kill without penalties of karma. Outside of grind spots pve guilds can not be touched by any form of pvp or attack others aside dueling or entering arsha servers. Pve guilds will have marni realm every hour as well. If they do not want to get attacked by decced guild, they can grind in marni.(Enable group grind in marni maybe?) Also, spawning node means not a grind spot, so cant be attacked unless node is in the grind spot (like orcs). Give the option of spawning in grind spot node or a node/town nearby out of the grind zone. Lets the pve'r swap channels or get help before they grind again. Also members of pve guilds, like the pvx, cannot merc for wars/sieges. They chose not to pvp, they dont get to pvp. My protection changes mentioned above applies here too.

Stops karma bombing and protects players who dont want to pvp. Thoughts?

Last Edit : Jul 29, 2023, 03:53 (UTC)
# 8
On: Jul 28, 2023, 11:56 (UTC), Written by OhCheesecake

Not bad, maybe have an option in guilds to enable or disable pvp usuing things already placed and newer things. For example:

Undecable guilds are guilds without nodes or territories. If a guild that owns a node/territory tries to dec a guild that doesnt onwn one, they get "Guild is not ready for war". This is the current system. The bypass to this is exactly that, be in a guild without any nodes/territories AND have no current decs up.

Solution (?):

Have guilds choose three options: pvp guild, pvx guild or pve guild. 

Pvp guild: Can be decced by anyone with short timers and largely increase dec limits or make it unlimited. They can only dec pvp guilds and have no consequences for pking enemy war targets anywhere outside safe zones. The guild will automatically give a warning of this to all members who try to/have joined of the change to pvp guild and what it entitles. Guilds that take this role are the only guilds that can node war and siege and can dec other pvp guilds with low timers of 1-5min to help prep players for the incoming pvp. Members can merc to any pvp guild and can cancel the contract for 100mill to go back to their guild. Can not cancel during war, only before. No protections for pvp members.

Pvx guild: for those who want pvp and pve. Keep the current system and apply the protection services i mentioned. These guilds can only dec a limited amount (2max) unlike pvp guilds. Guild bosses grant players pvp protection (stops griefing during guild boss scrolls) and might as well give this for world bosses too. Members here can only merc to wars/sieges once a week. Pvx players can still be attacked by war targets dec on them in grind spots and open world. Getting decced by other guilds will warn the guild every 5min and have the usual 15min timer. Players here get a taste of pve and pvp with a balance of both. Feel free to add thoughts and ideas to make it balanced.

Pve guild: this is for players who do not want to pvp. They will not be able to be decced at all by pvp guilds unless the pve guild has an active dec on another guild. (If the pve guild decides to attack another, they can be attacked themselves.) No loopholes, dont want pvp? Don't send a dec. Pve guilds can dec any guilds for grind spot disputes but only in grind spots can they be killed or kill without penalties of karma. Outside of grind spots pve guilds can not be touched by any form of pvp or attack others aside dueling or entering arsha servers. Pve guilds will have marni realm every hour as well. If they do not want to get attacked by decced guild, they can grind in marni.(Enable group grind in marni maybe?) Also, spawning node means not a grind spot, so cant be attacked unless node is in the grind spot (like orcs). Give the option of spawning in grind spot node or a node/town nearby out of the grind zone. Lets the pve'r swap channels or get help before they grind again. Also members of pve guilds, like the pvx, cannot merc for wars/sieges. They chose not to pvp, they dont get to pvp. My protection changes mentioned above applies here too.

Stops karma bombing and protects players who dont want to pvp. Thoughts?

Pretty good.  I'd have to think through the unintended consequences.

Last Edit : Jul 29, 2023, 07:34 (UTC)
# 9

I dont have a problem with this idea in theory, but you should know by now that players are reward minded. If I am in a pvp guild for example, and i can be decced by an unlimited number of other guilds and have no protections from war targets. ..I'm at a lot more risk than pve guilds that have access to infinite marni and can essentially just solo instance farm.

what are pve guilds willing to give up, or what should pvp guilds be getting in exchange for the added risk of interruption?

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