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UTC 11 : 45 May 15, 2024
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Class Origins opinion and reasons!!!
Jul 28, 2023, 18:04 (UTC)
1680 28
Last Edit : Aug 1, 2023, 16:55 (UTC)
# 11
On: Aug 1, 2023, 10:54 (UTC), Written by Ovomaltine

Incidentally, the fact that Pa follows Archer/Stereotype in character design has less significance in terms of their "marketing strategy" , but which sells better due to user behavior, preferences and gaming activity. Practically in every computer game (racist) stereotypes can be found. ^^Pa didn't invent to make money out of it. The PLayer and game behavior shows, what Pa can sell better -not the other way around

I'm very aware of how companies use the various possible stereotypes, for example in character design. And of course you can find at least one stereotype for every "avatar" in Bdo. But all in all though, Pa is doing a really good job here. Apart from the fact that female gender is overrepresented (which in turn suggests a statistical preference of players) and classic characters like warrior, magician etc. correspond to the stereotypes, there are a multitude of classes that have abilities/skills that does not suggest on theirs ethnological affiliation or gender. I even think the gameplay of the corresponding class design follows a certain logic, including historical background: eg ninjas or tamers are fast "trained fighters" which therefore require a high apm. Although Tamer is portrayed as a very childlike, young, petite woman, she also has a high APM and takes practice to master and not portrayed as a beginner class.

I therefore believe that Pa is influenced by stereotypes when it comes to character design, but not in way i would blame. 
However, guess its more up to feedback, preference, gameplay and probably many more factors are decisive how a class is buffed/nerfd.

@Ovomaltine -Why would you even use the word (racist) on this topic that has nothing to do with racism if you see it that way I guess that's on you. but pls keep your racist ideologies or opinions and don't include them here this is not about racism

1 . If they are other classes coming out later in the future in my opinion it would be awesome in many ways for the benefit of PA and BDO, it to be from other regions, being BDO a game with diversities classes for different origins. even the costumes and outfits have an original style look. what's wrong with asking PA to include a  playable class from the Americas or Africa I get there will be always (racists) with eloquent but obvious remarks that want to block or impend from that from happening. what's wrong with asking to include more of a class with a darker tone of skin, just like the Hashashing?

PA is doing a good job that is true, BDO is an awesome game.

2. Marketing based on targeting different demographics to make more sales,  is a good thing I don't have anything against it lmao I applauded it ... What many people find unfair and unbalanced is that just because one class is harder to play it forces people to play easier classes and that based on people opinions the game is balanced to cater to players opinion affecting the already hard to play classes and players that play them. and  the FACT that the region of origin of the  class  is obvious to everyone  it  shows which class gets more buffs and nerfs it's really disappointing 

For example not including new classes

Korean classes are overall one of the most popular classes in the game even before the Megu, and Wosa came out, the MUSA is still one of the strongest class and most playable classes in the game, reasons it's easy to learn, does major damage, and is fast.

Others are Almost all the European classes.

You can say all you want but that's facts, the game is not balanced. If PA caters to players based on most classes being played plus taking into account that they are the ones that created the classes and their origins and nerf/buff them. Indirectly or directly they have and always had the power to direct what classes get the benefits in-game.!!

A balanced game with diversity in classes wouldn't need Nerffs /Buffs classes skills. is that simple ... 

A game marketing either by demographics of origins and ethnicities is a good marketing strategy but if it caters to players playing the most popular or easiest class in which the game's creators can direct influence it, makes the game unbalanced.  for the simple fact that 

1 the creators and the players are humans and humans are selfish, Biased, and even worst racists.

Players will never stop complaining about why this class is better than mine or my class needs to get more buffed, other will complain ohh why did my class get Nerf.

If  a game where there are 5 classes and 2 of them are super hard to play and learn but the other 3 are super easy 

and the 2 hardest to learn are from  X country and the other 3 are from Y country then you based Nerff and buffs depending on the player's class of choice majority to make sure that the player stays happy.

Now asked yourself out of all the classes are there more people playing the difficult ones or the easy ones? 

some will try the difficult ones but eventually will go to the easy ones because the easy ones can do the same and outperformed the difficult ones,

Is that simple?

Last Edit : Aug 2, 2023, 01:17 (UTC)
# 12

I try to hold it short, I don’t wanna point it out because it's damn late by time. So to your complaining about Balancing: No company makes a change in buff/nerf just to intentionally piss off part of their customer base, not one. Balancing changes are made because the company sees a compelling reason that the change is needed for the overall health of the game.
Any company that ignores that would rapidly end up with a very very broken, unplayable and unenjoyable game.

Now, obviously, they don't always get it right. Mistakes are made in the "rebalancing" just like they were made originally, plus players are endlessly creative in finding ways to break systems that the devs missed. However, that's why it's an ongoing process.

The better companies (for example bdo ..and I'm rlly not a huge fan) maintain open channels of communication on upcoming changes, have some serious test server activity and generally don't act in a rapid, high-handed or overpowering mannner...-others are  a bit notorious for the surprise mass nerf attack method.

and no: it cannot always be handled by adjusting everyone upwards...that leads to MUDflation and either older content or the entire game just becoming idiotically trivial in difficulty.

And yea, of course there is a difference how to challenge a class. But let me tell you that Ive wrecked up and beaten by every class in this game.gear, skill and matchup knowledge combined make up if a player can compete or not, not if a class is easy or hard to play.

Your asking for every class to have an equal level of difficulty in playing and an equal effectiveness in use, is Not only an unreasonably ridiculous request to think it's actually feasible (highlighted by my evidence of other, more mechanically simple games also featuring varying degrees of difficulty in mastering characters, how many classes are already developed - this request would require a total overhaul of all the classes from the ground up, etc..having every class at the same learning curve just isn't a feasible and even if its possible its very questionable whether its a good thing or not.


Ps: if you open a discussion about stereotypes (=balance-System) in char-designs and complain about  my word "racism" to point the word out, then u don't get which kind of topic u started. 

Last Edit : Aug 2, 2023, 19:46 (UTC)
# 13
On: Aug 2, 2023, 01:17 (UTC), Written by Ovomaltine

I try to hold it short, I don’t wanna point it out because it's damn late by time. So to your complaining about Balancing: No company makes a change in buff/nerf just to intentionally piss off part of their customer base, not one. Balancing changes are made because the company sees a compelling reason that the change is needed for the overall health of the game.
Any company that ignores that would rapidly end up with a very very broken, unplayable and unenjoyable game.

Now, obviously, they don't always get it right. Mistakes are made in the "rebalancing" just like they were made originally, plus players are endlessly creative in finding ways to break systems that the devs missed. However, that's why it's an ongoing process.

The better companies (for example bdo ..and I'm rlly not a huge fan) maintain open channels of communication on upcoming changes, have some serious test server activity and generally don't act in a rapid, high-handed or overpowering mannner...-others are  a bit notorious for the surprise mass nerf attack method.

and no: it cannot always be handled by adjusting everyone upwards...that leads to MUDflation and either older content or the entire game just becoming idiotically trivial in difficulty.

And yea, of course there is a difference how to challenge a class. But let me tell you that Ive wrecked up and beaten by every class in this game.gear, skill and matchup knowledge combined make up if a player can compete or not, not if a class is easy or hard to play.

Your asking for every class to have an equal level of difficulty in playing and an equal effectiveness in use, is Not only an unreasonably ridiculous request to think it's actually feasible (highlighted by my evidence of other, more mechanically simple games also featuring varying degrees of difficulty in mastering characters, how many classes are already developed - this request would require a total overhaul of all the classes from the ground up, etc..having every class at the same learning curve just isn't a feasible and even if its possible its very questionable whether its a good thing or not.


Ps: if you open a discussion about stereotypes (=balance-System) in char-designs and complain about  my word "racism" to point the word out, then u don't get which kind of topic u started. 

@Ovomanltine. I don't know what you trying to do by replying to my Topics saying you want to keep it short if all you want to say is.

"Don't blame PA, BDO is a GOOD game,  I have better gear and I can beat anyone. so stop complaining the game is balanced and fair.!!"

I have never said that I want all classes to have the same level of difficulty play style,  you are just saying or insinuating lies.  get it right I will repeat myself... SAME SKILLS  DAMAGE NUMBER STATS for all classes including cooldowns! 

Is that what you really want to say, If it is then hey good for you I respect your opinions and your ignorant sided biased ideas.

I don't know what's so hard to understand a simple fact.  

Fact 1. When a game is balanced it doesn't need nerfs or buffs to classes no excuses.

Fact 2. Don't get things twisted, Class play styles should not be affected by the stats number damage of the skills.

Fact 3. If a Game caters to players it will never find a balance because like you said players will always try to brake or find things to complain about. So the solution for that in this case would be not buff nor nerf skills of classes is to make them all the same stats number damage! No matter what you come up with you have no excuses or justification... if you do then you are advocating for an unfair unbalanced game.

Fact . 4 PA- BDO is a Korean Game and I don't know what kind of world you living in but if we are in the same world then they are humans and if you do not take into account that all humans do things for profit and all human have a selfish, biased and even more all humans display even some kind of racism on top of that they can and do reflect it in their actions in some way or another then hay you must not be living in the same planet oh never you just hid it better.   

Fact .5 If a game in which this case BDO have classes that no matter if it affects the mechanics of the game or not the simple fact that they made it obvious and realistic the use of origins and ethnics, it says a lot, they are a Korean based game, that we all understand and who don't want to show the world about their culture and origins. because they make it obvious, and there is nothing wrong with that.

If you or anyone think or can't handle the opinions or the ability of others to think, have ideas, opinions, and .conclusions, thats very sad for you.

Fact . 6 If PA dint knows that by including or creating a game that specifically distinguish ethnic origins and that opinions of Biaesd based on classes were not going to be expected from players then I guess you don't understand human nature. did they do on purposed intentionally or not  . they still did it.

Fact 7. Life is not Fair, but what we can't control in life it can be controlled in a game,  that's way too deep lol 

Fact 8. You have the audacity to say that the difficulty of a class doesn't matter in PvP lol wow you see how you just showed everyone you just trolling here. Gears, crystals, and artifacts do matter, PLAY STYLE and the difficulty of the class matter even more. But if 1 class has skills that have more damage more AOE  less cooldown and Lest stamina usage that makes a HUGE difference....

Fact 8. Whatever excuse you want to make is irrelevant because I at least base my argument on believable and true facts. How? READ 1,2,3 above and disprove it. Look up all the updates PA has done about class nerfs/buffs and tell me which has benefited the most ethnic-based.

Final Fact 9. Ps:  if you want to excuse your malicious intention of you using the word (racism) in my post then you are coming to this topic with the intention of creating chaos... If it bothers you that I point out something that PA/BDO creators made obvious to the public and that is  Creating classes defined with ethical and cultural origins, that's your problem and lack of comprehension or just plain ignorance.

Formula

Class Origins+Leve of Difficulty play style+Player preferance+ players complains = nerfs/buffs  

The game won't stop being fun or making profits. just enjoy it. PA is doing a great job with BDO  and it can do even more ...

More class diversity and balance skills stats 

Last Edit : Aug 2, 2023, 21:37 (UTC)
# 14

Smells like low effort troll. 
They are not good at balancing because they are bad at balancing not because of some east vs west bs. 
Off the top of my head rn 2 of the best 3 classes in this game rn are sage and zerker. 
Also, musa a korean class? He is chinese AF. Learn some history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guandao

Last Edit : Aug 2, 2023, 21:47 (UTC)
# 15

I dont talk just about Bdo, but Mmorpgs in fact and discrepance in balance-system. 
You are way oversimplifying it, for example about same (dmg)Skill numbres .

If there were only 3 roles and only 1 option for each of those roles, then it would be this easy to balance.
However, that is frankly boring as shit to play, so MMOs give a variety of options for each role, and to make those options actually interesting they need to be different than each other, otherwise you end up with a bunch of classes that look and play the exact same, which is generally a trait of a bad MMO.
Another aspect of balancing classes is actually content design. You may not think that content design impacts class design and balancing, but they are -haevily- reliant on each other.If you have classes that are really good at AoE for example, and only a couple classes that are really good at single target, if all your content is designed to be AoE heavy, those single target classes become useless/near useless (And you can invert that of course for to much Single Target focus making AoE useless), same can be said for the melee vs ranged dynamic, as well as a bunch of other factors as well
..but I think I made my point. So this is the shortish version again of this, but yeah, the thing is that you are massively oversimplifying it, the full explanations for each aspect of class design are much more in-depth than what I said.

Just as sidenote: My rudimentary explanation of things, doesnt mean to have criticisms of Pa. But that also doesnt make up for the difficulty of class balancing:

Let us looking forward: Particularly, in gams where ppl pay to play, everybody wants to feel like they can experience everything the game has to offer. If the choices you make, while playing a game exclude you from certain content or experiences within the game, ppl feel like the game is ripping them off. Complaints about "balance" in these games, are usually because the "metagame" has for some reason or another excluded some legal units, resources or strategies from being viable to succeed. To the otherside is Bdo a huge unbalanced asymmetry game. And the more unbalanced asymmetry a game has, the more randomness needs to be introduced. That also means, that many strategies and choices are viable.

I will skip ur last takes, because i guess we past each other. And i dont wanna write a novel.
Have a good night

This was deleted by the writer.
Last Edit : Aug 2, 2023, 21:56 (UTC)
# 17
On: Aug 2, 2023, 21:37 (UTC), Written by Findubar

Smells like low effort troll. 
They are not good at balancing because they are bad at balancing not because of some east vs west bs. 
Off the top of my head rn 2 of the best 3 classes in this game rn are sage and zerker. 
Also, musa a korean class? He is chinese AF. Learn some history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guandao

LOL LMAO about the East vs West hey that's your opinion good for you. 

about sage and zerk can be taken as compromising 

Musa is a Chinese ???? class ... LMAO!!! Musa means warrior in Korean plus Guandao is a reference to Guan Yu and if u don't know Korean culture or history some can say they admire him. But the Term MUSA is  Korean lol Learn the history and look up the meaning of words before you type.!! but Kudos for your efforts. but I don't have the time to teach

무사  (musa) (hanja 武士)

  1. warrior
Last Edit : Aug 2, 2023, 22:20 (UTC)
# 18

Just to bring korean history into the right spot: The worship Guan Yu is a chinese who lived his entire life in the Middle Kingdom about 1800 years ago and never set foot on the Korean Peninsula...

Last Edit : Aug 2, 2023, 22:26 (UTC)
# 19
On: Aug 2, 2023, 21:47 (UTC), Written by Ovomaltine

I dont talk just about Bdo, but Mmorpgs in fact and discrepance in balance-system. 
You are way oversimplifying it, for example about same (dmg)Skill numbres .

If there were only 3 roles and only 1 option for each of those roles, then it would be this easy to balance.
However, that is frankly boring as shit to play, so MMOs give a variety of options for each role, and to make those options actually interesting they need to be different than each other, otherwise you end up with a bunch of classes that look and play the exact same, which is generally a trait of a bad MMO.
Another aspect of balancing classes is actually content design. You may not think that content design impacts class design and balancing, but they are -haevily- reliant on each other.If you have classes that are really good at AoE for example, and only a couple classes that are really good at single target, if all your content is designed to be AoE heavy, those single target classes become useless/near useless (And you can invert that of course for to much Single Target focus making AoE useless), same can be said for the melee vs ranged dynamic, as well as a bunch of other factors as well
..but I think I made my point. So this is the shortish version again of this, but yeah, the thing is that you are massively oversimplifying it, the full explanations for each aspect of class design are much more in-depth than what I said.

Just as sidenote: My rudimentary explanation of things, doesnt mean to have criticisms of Pa. But that also doesnt make up for the difficulty of class balancing:

Let us looking forward: Particularly, in gams where ppl pay to play, everybody wants to feel like they can experience everything the game has to offer. If the choices you make, while playing a game exclude you from certain content or experiences within the game, ppl feel like the game is ripping them off. Complaints about "balance" in these games, are usually because the "metagame" has for some reason or another excluded some legal units, resources or strategies from being viable to succeed. To the otherside is Bdo a huge unbalanced asymmetry game. And the more unbalanced asymmetry a game has, the more randomness needs to be introduced. That also means, that many strategies and choices are viable.

I will skip ur last takes, because i guess we past each other. And i dont wanna write a novel.
Have a good night

Thank you for your points of you. and I understand what your trying to say. even tho you don't seem to grasp the meaning and the fundamental facts of differentially what makes the game fun or boring and unbalanced and unfair? I hope you reach enlightenment in your journey. no matter how long it takes you I wish you good luck.

I wi leave you with a simple statement because I am tired too of replying to you :).

BDO is Not a balanced game  when it comes to classes and if you are a player of any of these classes 

Tamer, Kunoichi, Ninja and Sorceress! 

I recommend you to seriously try them and do some pvp and grind with them not just some casual play ...If not then stay with the easy-to-learn and play classes  .....

And I hope you have a blessed day.

Last Edit : Aug 2, 2023, 22:24 (UTC)
# 20
On: Aug 2, 2023, 22:20 (UTC), Written by Ovomaltine

Just to bring korean history into the right spot: The worship Guan Yu is a chinese who lived his entire life in the Middle Kingdom about 1800 years ago and never set foot on the Korean Peninsula...

That is correct and a lot of Korean Admire him !!!

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