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UTC 16 : 4 May 3, 2024
CEST 18 : 4 May 3, 2024
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EDT 12 : 4 May 3, 2024
Weak Passive Skills as an afterthought to important game mechanics.
Sep 30, 2023, 09:29 (UTC)
806 14
Last Edit : Oct 19, 2023, 20:03 (UTC)
# 11
On: Oct 19, 2023, 18:48 (UTC), Written by Despins


You linger merely on an example. 
It's just a logical argument I try to give. Give a class a 100 AP passive. Then whoops! It seems like the class deals a lot more damage than it is meant to. You then reduce the damage elsewhere. It's just appearances. I don't see in what world you'd think that Awakening Witch for instance deals 32 AP worth of damage too much.

That's not how damage and AP works.

AP doesn't "just" increases your damage, it changes how your class scales with gear. 32AP both can be useless and extremely broken depending on what gear you're talking. For the avarage gearlet it doesn't matter much, but at highend PvP the effective AP is around 100-150, where this can mean 30% more damage. Same on newer spots with extreme monster DR.

A 10% cast speed passive will going to give at most 10% damage boost(actually less). A critical damage passive is even worse since it dimishes in efficently hard, meaning a 10% critical damage passive gives you a less than 4% boost in damage, which is nothing.

And you can not balance in flat AP or DR modifiers. Anyone who says PA balance around those are totally clueless and have no knowledge on the subject. It's not possible to balance with %damage changes on modifiers which give varring amount of power depending on gear.

Also you're shittalking on cast speed passives, meanwhile there are ppls who cope about how they feel the 1% from the crystals...

You're mentioning the accuracy passives, but if you trade in your 20AP passive for acuracy, you can get 60accuracy for that 20AP, which equals with 15% accuracy, meanwhile the accuracy passives gives a mere 5% accuracy which is dogshit tier.

244 4634
Lv 63
Hnnie
Last Edit : Oct 19, 2023, 20:58 (UTC)
# 12
On: Oct 19, 2023, 20:03 (UTC), Written by CatDK

That's not how damage and AP works.

AP doesn't "just" increases your damage, it changes how your class scales with gear. 32AP both can be useless and extremely broken depending on what gear you're talking. For the avarage gearlet it doesn't matter much, but at highend PvP the effective AP is around 100-150, where this can mean 30% more damage. Same on newer spots with extreme monster DR.

A 10% cast speed passive will going to give at most 10% damage boost(actually less). A critical damage passive is even worse since it dimishes in efficently hard, meaning a 10% critical damage passive gives you a less than 4% boost in damage, which is nothing.

And you can not balance in flat AP or DR modifiers. Anyone who says PA balance around those are totally clueless and have no knowledge on the subject. It's not possible to balance with %damage changes on modifiers which give varring amount of power depending on gear.

Also you're shittalking on cast speed passives, meanwhile there are ppls who cope about how they feel the 1% from the crystals...

You're mentioning the accuracy passives, but if you trade in your 20AP passive for acuracy, you can get 60accuracy for that 20AP, which equals with 15% accuracy, meanwhile the accuracy passives gives a mere 5% accuracy which is dogshit tier.

My point was never about how 20 AP from gear is meaningless. Or 3% cast speed from a splendid is meaningless. Never was.

The thing with passives is that they don't appear out of nowhere. There's no way I could decide to take out 32 AP from my crystal setups because I already have 32 AP from my passives, use that elsewhere and have the same damage as another class. The 32 AP passive is dilluted from long term balance changes already through %damage in the skills, (sometimes %class mod), cast pattern and how the class behaves as a whole (with or without capped gear content). If a class is overpowered because it has 32 AP, trust that it's going to be nerfed elsewhere, or directly from damage if the game balancing act is reliable.

Another way of looking at it is. Lets decide for the sake of an experiment to give everyone else 32 AP. For simplicity sake, everyone means classes without AP passives / damage passives. What do you think would happen?

Alternatively, we do the same for classes without a 10% cast or attack speed passive.

I would believe that for the second experiment, classes without passives would attack faster than the class that had the 10% speed passives before. For the first experiment, classes that did not have AP passive prior to the experiment would be completely busted.


Last Edit : Oct 19, 2023, 20:53 (UTC)
# 13
On: Oct 19, 2023, 20:03 (UTC), Written by CatDK

You're mentioning the accuracy passives, but if you trade in your 20AP passive for acuracy, you can get 60accuracy for that 20AP, which equals with 15% accuracy, meanwhile the accuracy passives gives a mere 5% accuracy which is dogshit tier.


To be clear on that specific point is that indirect stats from passives have fewer nerf or adjustment opportunities. As wild as it may sound, a class having some very mediocre +100 weight on their passive or a +50% amity gain or whatever would almost never have this special gain removed. There's very little chance that this class would receive 100 weight less from +gains per level or whatever. 

The real unfair passive from Witch Wizard is not the +20 Magic AP.  The real unfair one is the +10 % Stun Stiff Freeze resist that was kept since release, for no justifiable causes. Berserker also has it and I can't give an explanation. 

Good passives are the ones who avoid the balance costs from the developpers. Do you think Succession Sage pay anything valuable for that evasion counter? Or that +20 DP block for 20 seconds?

Last Edit : Oct 20, 2023, 08:34 (UTC)
# 14
On: Oct 19, 2023, 20:53 (UTC), Written by Despins


To be clear on that specific point is that indirect stats from passives have fewer nerf or adjustment opportunities. As wild as it may sound, a class having some very mediocre +100 weight on their passive or a +50% amity gain or whatever would almost never have this special gain removed. There's very little chance that this class would receive 100 weight less from +gains per level or whatever. 

The real unfair passive from Witch Wizard is not the +20 Magic AP.  The real unfair one is the +10 % Stun Stiff Freeze resist that was kept since release, for no justifiable causes. Berserker also has it and I can't give an explanation. 

Good passives are the ones who avoid the balance costs from the developpers. Do you think Succession Sage pay anything valuable for that evasion counter? Or that +20 DP block for 20 seconds?

PA still doesn't take in passives when they balance so this whole post is nonsense. And they can't as it was described above, go read and understand the text properly.

Also are you even aware that Sage also got 20/27AP passive? That's what allow him to trade in hard on eva and still deal damage to DR targets.

244 4634
Lv 63
Hnnie
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