Forcing PVP on to people is bad
Dec 7, 2023, 13:17 (UTC)
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Last Edit :
Dec 8, 2023, 17:20 (UTC)
# 51
On: Dec 7, 2023, 13:17 (UTC), Written by LordBagbuna
Family Name: Adalwen
Region (NA/EU): EU
Suggestions/Comments:
Let people play what mode they want freely. If i want to PVE freely i should. Not everyone loves to PVP, and especially not everyone have the time to study every class to know their rotation, what skill is protected, etc, etc. And most new players will just Quit the game completely. I think it's very telling what people want just by looking the "servers" population, and what activity most people actually do.
I'm a competitive type of player, but you need so much time invested to learn so many thing, BDO has to be your main and your second job. To enjoy even partly OWPVP, you literally need to be decently geared, and to have a good understanding of most classes, on top of that, you still going to kill/die in 2 seconds, so it's still feel meh.
But most importantly Forcing something to players it's going to make them hate this thing, and it's what happen with the OWPVP.
I actively play 2-3 hours per day, and i recently changed my class to Ninja, as i'm high APM lover player. I love masterying my class, and the content i play.
I'm an ex Apex Legends Predator player, but currently i have no more then 2-3 hours playing. So i prefer to spend my time Grinding PVE, as it's relaxing, and enjoyable, especially with fast clicking. And there is a learning curve in perfecting your zone routine and improve your grinding results.
Now i'm not against PVP, but i don't get all the crying from the PVP players, and that they want to force PVP literally upon everyone. There is a dedicated server for this, and you get a 50% drop rate bonus on it. So what exactly is your problem ? Just play there, h?
Nqh, we all know that most people that are guarding the forum and are crying loudly don't want to actually PVP equl gear/skilled players, and they just want to grief players that just want to enjoy PVE, and don't have all day playing. As you need gear to do a proper PVP(except for AOS, which is most new and mid people like me enjoy).
Let's be real the crying is from griefers. They have their dedication PVP server, they also have plenty of PVP modes in the game. But they don't want that. They are actually bad, and just want to storm new players or ones that are entirely focusing on PVE.
This is equal to me being a Predator player, plays in a Bronze or Silver Lobby in Apex. Or a Vet CS:GO players, plays in a newplayer lobbies. Can you guess how many of the new players will actually stay in the game? Even the average/mid type of players that wants to become good, but want to play in equal lobbies?
It's the same situation in here.
The game is going in a decent direction. People loves PVE, and you see a huge wave of player base, because of the changes. A lot of these people will want to do PVP as well, but they don't want to be forced. When they are geared enough, and check that mark, they will start grinding the PVP aspect, practicing more and PVP. Forcing people to do PVP content, is going to drive your playerbase away. Same as listening to toxic people who think they have the right to say, cause they are simply no-lifers.
I hope we get dedicated PVE server in the future, where people can grind freely, and zones are just like a big Marni, aka Instance zone.
Just give the people freedom to do what they want. If they want to PVP, there is a dedicated server for that with zero penalty, if people want to PVE freely, let them do that.
Thank you.
Hmmm, no one is forcing you to play a pvp focused game. You are competing against other players for progression in the market place, lifeskill resources, and when it comes to grinding. The open world pk portion of this game helps with bot like behavior. Im upset with the direction J is taking because it incentivizes bot like behavior when grinding, arguably what used to be the most fun part of the game is now plagued with bots running around grinding overtop each other.
Arsha was a failed bandaid to the void left behind when they eliminated exp loss on death. It doesnt solve the problems on the regular channels, and body flinging is worse on that channel when it comes to bots griefing you.
From a competative standpoint open world PK needs a different approach then what J is doing.
Last Edit :
Dec 8, 2023, 17:22 (UTC)
# 52
On: Dec 7, 2023, 19:42 (UTC), Written by LordBagbuna
And i don't get PVP players, you can have your open World PVP in the Arsha, with a 50% Item Drop Rate, which is a HUGE Bonus. So why are you not PVP-ing there? Enlighten us pls.
Going to Arsha does not solve the botting or bot like behavior on the regular channels.
Last Edit :
Dec 8, 2023, 17:47 (UTC)
# 53
the more ppl cryabout it, the more i believe ppl mad they cant attack unprepared players
Last Edit :
Dec 8, 2023, 18:03 (UTC)
# 54
On: Dec 8, 2023, 17:47 (UTC), Written by Adonaj
the more ppl cryabout it, the more i believe ppl mad they cant attack unprepared players
Its a marathon, not a sprint. The joy is getting prepared while dodging those who want to slow your progress.
The game was competing for resources, not botting for resources.
Last Edit :
Dec 8, 2023, 18:56 (UTC)
# 55
On: Dec 8, 2023, 05:12 (UTC), Written by LordBagbuna
[...] And i can easily use Reddit and see what people think, and that 99,99% in there don't want OWPVP be forced on them. [...]
Dude, are we using the same reddit? I don't know yours but mine is www.reddit.com and I don't see the same as you.
99,99%? Where did you pull that number from?
You'd talk about "half / half" it would be more believable but still PA's market is going fully down since their first changes in KR and then internationally. It shows better than your fake "99,99%" about what the players want.
Stop pulling numbers from a hat please...
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This was deleted by the writer.
Last Edit :
Dec 8, 2023, 19:25 (UTC)
# 57
On: Dec 8, 2023, 17:47 (UTC), Written by Adonaj
the more ppl cryabout it, the more i believe ppl mad they cant attack unprepared players
I don't know if anyone can be really "prepared", and the player who kills for a spot becomes the unprepared one anyway.
But in any case, there's no difference between players on this point, you can be aware or oblivious, it's only up to you!
Last Edit :
Dec 8, 2023, 20:00 (UTC)
# 58
Ngl wasnt sure if this was a troll post or not
The dec changes were a complete overkill and not needed considering we have the marni realm changes and the low cd on channel swaps.
Like the same stupid argument of "you just want to bully low geared people out" with the dec changes is just such a cope take.
People ( myself included) are getting karmabombed by 730gs+ people at the new grindspot without counterplay , hell , im getting karmabombed more often by higher geared people that can "defend" themselves than actual gearlets.
So tell me how this is exactly protecting newer players if i mainly see higher geared people abusing it to the max?
Also having spontanous gvgs are a thing of the past now due to the change , just removing another piece of pvp content which would let you actually use your hardearned gear on compared to all the capped "pvp content"
The "JUST GO TO ARSHA BRO" , yea sure , if i want to pvp i go there but i wont go to arsha to progress gear , idk if you know but pvp currently doesnt give you any meaningful silver to progress , so pvpers are also forced to grind like you are to progress.
Arsha is just a pvp battleground , not a place to grind gear , especially when you have limited time per day to spend on grinding
( inb4 someone tells me they had a rotation for themselves for 47minutes at 5 am in the morning on arsha so that means its perma free)
Just turn 6 existing channels to PvE only channels and revert the dec changes so you can play your PvE only gamemode
( even tho im sure the enjoyment wouldnt last long considering season servers are pve only and its a miserable experience to grind on if you arent new to the game :) )
I think the removal of the black robe NPC was good and overdue since it was only used for the purpose of griefing.
And i do think that there should be some sort of punishment if you get severly griefed for days/weeks nonstop and people channel swap over and over to prevent you from playing the game.
But then again , how often does it actually happen?
You either have to be an asshole urself to cause that much drama that people grief you to that extend or you hit that 0.1% chance of encountering that one asshole that targets you for no reason
TLDR : You are too insecure/scared to PvP for a spot and would rather remove a key feature of bdo that made it standout from other mmos so you feel better about yourself?
Last Edit :
Dec 8, 2023, 21:28 (UTC)
# 59
On: Dec 8, 2023, 05:32 (UTC), Written by LordBagbuna
And my suggestion will fix grinding on top of you, and fix completely, not just putting a System, and hide behind that system, where everyone knows that Karma System is beyond crap.
As i can come and grind on top of you, and completely ignore you, and Karma will actually protect me, which isn't Ok, right? You will kill me a few times, but you will eventually had to stop, cause you will go Red, and then the fun parts begin.
So completely removing that problem is the solution, not making semi-good, semi-bad system that are just covering the real problem.
Dec a war will solve absolutely nothign in that part. I won't give a 2 hot crap if you dec. a War on my guild i can still do the same. That solves absolutely nothing. There is also that, some people don't even have Guild.
So claiming that was a problem solving is beyond ridiculous, cause it's not.
And yeah claiming Arsha is not a good argument, and give a 2 **** answer for why it's not a good argument doesn't work in here.
You are saying Arsha is without rules, well Arsha is the same as normal Server, but you don't get Karma bombed, something which can happen and it's extremely unfair to the rightful player that defend it's spot. Actually Arsha is the exact solution for that.
You can also feed to mobs in Arsha as well, as this is something you 2 loves to bring up. Something i would never even consider as option, as this is extremely toxic and another reason why so many people don't like the PVP aspect as well.
And who you are trying to lie that people go in Arsha to PVP? Are you telling me that people don't PVE in Arsha?
Cause a lot of spots are taken in there, and people actually grind in there, and doing it, cause there is 50% item drop rate.
You can try to lie with this to some newborn players, which i'm not.
Hell when i was grinding for Infi Potions i was in Arsha and for example in Blood, we were 3 people literally next to each other grinding areas, and no one was killing me. If someone try to take the zone from me, when i was killing him he was moving away. As it was supposed to be, and there was no lame penalty for me for defending my spot.
In a normal server, what would have happen is, he would have come on top of me, and just grind over me, until i get tired of killing him or vice versa. You get the point.
You are looking at it from your point of view and what you are doing and thinking it's fun, but for a lot of people this ain't fun, and they want to grind peacefully.
And yes you are trying to force something into them.
Again what exactly is the problem with a dedicated PVE server? It will actually show what people want to play or not.
If you are so sure the majority of the people prefer Open World PVPVE, then they won't go into the "solo" mode right?
But we all know that is not the case, and you all are scared, cause you won't be able to go kill the players that don't bother with PVP, and the real reason you don't play Arsha is not some pitty b.c., that no one believe, but because there is better skilled player in there, and you can't bully them.
It's exactly as i describe it. You don't want the game to have a SBMM, you want to be able to s**** on players that just won't fight back, as they either don't have the time to learn all the PVP stuffs, or just don't like PVP at all.
This is a long post in reply to mine that doesn't say anything at all. You haven't addressed any of my points, really, just reguirgitating what you've been saying to everyone else.
I already said unfair PK can be bad. Which is why I said the game has a system in place to mitigate it. I also said that the game CLEARLY tells you "youre entering a combat zone" when leaving safe zones --- are you not able to extrapolate what this means? This has been in game since release --- if you can't extrapolate what this means, in this game, then there really is no amount of rationale that can get through to you.
You even went so far as to explain how grinding over someone is bad, but at the same time, completely ignore the ways that are curerrently in game to alleviate it. You acknowledged the problem (grinding over someone) but ignored what is the most rational and reasonable solution to this, which is war dec (aside from Marni and swapping, since both unfair PK and being grinded over can be alleviated by those things). Unfair PK = there's a preventative measure (karma). Being grinded over = ZERO preventative measure, other than feeding to mobs.
Did you not read where I said I am NOT in favor of mob feeding? It's toxic AF. But even if it's toxic, it's all we have to defend against being grinded over now. Even on Season, people grind over each other. In a game setting like BDO, being grinded over stunts progress and can be a hinderance to many players. Can't you see how this game is meant to promote a PVEVP gameplay experience, not a 100% PVE one? I'm laying out all the facts, but I honestly don't think you can put the pieces together because you're biased AF. So many level 66 players are downvoting you, others are downvoting you. Even people who don't usually post in the forum are downvoting you. Guess why? Oh, let me guess, because they're all biased and you're the smart one here, am I right?
Also, when did I say players don't grind on Arsha? The game is PVX -- what I said was Arsha is PVP wiht no rules and normal is PVP with rules. The two being COMPLETELY different game play experiences. You not being able to extrapolate what this means says a lot about your opinion. There's a problem on normal when players break the rules, or play around then rules and bend them to harrass others, and there is no reasonable solution available -- That being griefing rotations. Unless you're promoting mob feeding, there is no solution and THAT'S what players have been complaining about. NOT about being able to bully people like you're saying, that's stupid.
There's multiple ways to grief in BDO. And the game does not do a good job in alleviating this. You even described how incomplete and broken Karma is. Your post is titled "Forcing PVP is bad" -- no kidding, why do you think karma exists? You know what's also bad? Grinding on top of others. Extrapolate what that means if you can. Leave Marni and swapping out since both problems can be alleviated that way. One form of griefing has an in-game mechanic to prevent it, the other form does not.
It used to be guild dec -- organic, player-driven content, with intent, player agency, decision making, player interaction, community-building, guild interactions and diplomacy, rivalries, player-driven storylines, honor, pride, and a REAL meaning in gearing up since GVG and standing up for your guildmates in OWPVP is NOT gear capped. It gave meaning to the grind. So yeah, can forced PVP be bad? No kidding, genius. Why do you think karma exists (I say this repeatedly because I don't trust you to understand it, so it needs to be hammered in)? Can it be good? In some cases, yes. Doesn't take a genius like you to see that, Einstein.
Honestly, I'm not even against a full on PVE server at this point. Let you guys all grind over each other for all I care. Make BDO fully instanced, turn it into Warframe, who gives AF anyway. Who cares if this keeps happening in this meme? Who even cares about BDO anymore anyway???? Pssh. No one does, not even J. SO WHY EVEN CARE, do with BDO whatever at this point. Been waiting for a better MMO for a while now, ever since stupid changes were made in BDO. I'm 735 Gear Score, loyal to this game, defended it, played since 2016, loved this game and the community, but I've been seeing more people with opinions like yours and I'm just like, I'm done. Like I said, the changes don't affect me personally much --- I do my thing just fine. What gets me is the scope of the entire game as a whole, more than what's nice for a specific subset of players. I don't pander. I want THE GAME to thrive. And right now, I don't see the evidence of that. This Calpheon Ball, I feel, is make it or break it for J.
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Last Edit :
Dec 9, 2023, 01:28 (UTC)
# 60
On: Dec 7, 2023, 18:57 (UTC), Written by Kuree
I don't think griefing is really an issue anymore. They've made multiple changes to improve the situation.
• 12 hours of Marni Realm
• Guild War requires mutual consent
• 5 minute server swap cooldown
• Family-wide Karma
• And most recently, disabled the Black Robe NPC in Velia
Perhaps there could be further improvements such as changing the open-world PvP system to an opt-in (e.g War Mode from World of Warcraft) where players who have opted in gain small benefits and can attack other players who have also opted in without any penalties and the need to flag. Players who have opted out would be semi-transparent, untargetable and have a green name.
You do not get 12 hours if Marni unkess you never sleep, lol.
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