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#Gameplay_General
Item Drop - Disclosure
Apr 1, 2021, 20:34 (UTC)
4952 46
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Last Edit : Apr 1, 2021, 20:34 (UTC)
# 1

These questions have been around for years, but have never been officially answered.

 

-- Event Items --

Do these have their own specific drop tables in addition to regular drops?

 

Can an event item replace/over ride another item?

Rare Table -- Distortion Earring, Mass of Magic, Crystal) (1-3)

Does this become

Rare Table -- Distortion Earring, Mass of Magic, Crystal, Event item) (1-4)

 

-- Global Loot Control --

Is there ANY mechanism in place that takes into account the amount of players in ANY way (per server, globally, region) that affects other players drops?

 

Is there ANY control factor or limitation to special drops such as the Potion Pieces that limits the amount issued on a time bases or any other type of limitation?

15 919
Last Edit : Apr 1, 2021, 22:09 (UTC)
# 2

It's extremely unlikely that you ever get answer to this. Especially since the ones who could answer don't even speak english, and the chances that your question will be fowarded to them and seriously answered is neglechtable.

 

I don't see any reason why your first question would be like this, it's not logicall, and it would actually take extra effort to implement it that way with no benefit.

Event items also have higher drop rate than the rare items from SE, so it wouldn't even be possible to do it.

 

The second one also ain't make much sense though PA know to implement pointless BS features, so who knows...

 

Also please note that you don't know the exact droprates, and they can at any time change them however they please without telling it to us, so...

244 4634
Lv 62
Hnnie
Last Edit : Apr 1, 2021, 22:16 (UTC)
# 3
On: Apr 1, 2021, 22:09 (UTC), Written by PlasticDK

It's extremely unlikely that you ever get answer to this. Especially since the ones who could answer don't even speak english, and the chances that your question will be fowarded to them and seriously answered is neglechtable.

 

I don't see any reason why your first question would be like this, it's not logicall, and it would actually take extra effort to implement it that way with no benefit.

Event items also have higher drop rate than the rare items from SE, so it wouldn't even be possible to do it.

 

The second one also ain't make much sense though PA know to implement pointless BS features, so who knows...

 

Also please note that you don't know the exact droprates, and they can at any time change them however they please without telling it to us, so...

A general table is enough to suffice for the example.  Event items may also be part of multiple tables depending on the event and scarcity of the item.  Putting them in a loot table with Blackstones doesn't change the questions or the meaning of the discussion.

 

Multiple questions have already been answered regarding the accuracy of information, tool tips, events, seasons etc.

15 919
Last Edit : Apr 1, 2021, 22:51 (UTC)
# 4

There's only one force that can make companies to disclose their rng tables - legislation. It's because the business model of companies like PA is largely based on the fact the rng is not only bad but also as unknown as possible.

 

More countries need to pass laws like Belgium where companies are forced to reveal their rng % but even in Belgium cunning lawyers can weasel their way out of some disclosure, masquerading the rng behind in-game currencies of several layers (like PA does - with ACoin -> Pearls -> and only then items).

 

Just take it as granted - when you step into the games which live off the rng, you know what you're getting into. Always assume the worst outcome of any event box/drop/giveaway and you at least won't be disappointed.

Last Edit : Apr 1, 2021, 22:57 (UTC)
# 5
On: Apr 1, 2021, 22:51 (UTC), Written by Transfinite

There's only one force that can make companies to disclose their rng tables - legislation. It's because the business model of companies like PA is largely based on the fact the rng is not only bad but also as unknown as possible.

 

More countries need to pass laws like Belgium where companies are forced to reveal their rng % but even in Belgium cunning lawyers can weasel their way out of some disclosure, masquerading the rng behind in-game currencies of several layers (like PA does - with ACoin -> Pearls -> and only then items).

 

Just take it as granted - when you step into the games which live off the rng, you know what you're getting into. Always assume the worst outcome of any event box/drop/giveaway and you at least won't be disappointed.

Hidden stats were common in BDO years ago.  Since then virtually all stats have been revealed.  Hidden PVE, brackets, class modifiers etc.

 

The information about drops could help players make more appropriate decisions just like the information on Novuer vs Kutum.  A player might life skill when an area is crowded or grind on off hours.  If it had any impact.  Does it?

 

Things already have changed in many ways and more changes will always happen.  IF people are willing to push for them and voice their concerns.

 

Whether you like the recent Sage changes or not, those changes where predicated on player feedback.

15 919
Last Edit : Apr 1, 2021, 23:18 (UTC)
# 6

Hidden stats have nothing to do with rng. They are just parameters which work deterministically. "Deterministically" means that at any given moment assuming the same input they yield the same result. Rng on the other hand is a complete opposite. If you get some item from an rng box, the next box will contain something unpredictable, but the input was the same.

 

This also means that not displaying the "hidden parameters" is just a matter of inconvenience. That's because since they're deterministic - their behavior can be reverse-engineered just by repetition and comparison (which gives rise to some external guides / web-sites).

 

The game has "some" rng percentages shown - like on enhancement - but there's no real way to check those displayed percentages. That's because for high-grade items it's impossible to do repetition and averaging en-masse to figure out things like probability density function or other statistical parameters. And why is it impossible? Because we're talking about items worth of 50+bil for say PEN accs, there's no way to have even a hundred of results (and it's likely that even 10 thousands won't be a statistically significant data set)

 

So despite enhancement chances being present - there's no real way to actually check it. On a contrary, when you fail a TET 30 times in a row with 20% chance, if you work out the math here, then the probability of this event is 0.12% assuming the uniform distribution. And when you have it happening to several items of yours - you start to really doubt those displayed percentages.

Last Edit : Apr 1, 2021, 23:45 (UTC)
# 7
On: Apr 1, 2021, 23:13 (UTC), Written by Transfinite

Hidden stats have nothing to do with rng. They are just parameters which work deterministically. "Deterministically" means that at any given moment assuming the same input they yield the same result. Rng on the other hand is a complete opposite. If you get some item from an rng box, the next box will contain something unpredictable, but the input was the same.

 

This also means that not displaying the "hidden parameters" is just a matter of inconvenience. That's because since they're deterministic - their behavior can be reverse-engineered just by repetition and comparison (which gives rise to some external guides / web-sites).

 

The game has "some" rng percentages shown - like on enhancement - but there's no real way to check those displayed percentages. That's because for high-grade items it's impossible to do repetition and averaging en-masse to figure out things like probability density function or other statistical parameters. And why is it impossible? Because we're talking about items worth of 50+bil for say PEN accs, there's no way to have even a hundred of results (and it's likely that even 10 thousands won't be a statistically significant data set)

 

So despite enhancement chances being present - there's no real way to actually check it. On a contrary, when you fail a TET 30 times in a row with 20% chance, if you work out the math here, then the probability of this event is 0.12% assuming the uniform distribution. And when you have it happening to several items of yours - you start to really doubt those displayed percentages.

The information is verifiable via the code or private servers.  Any other information would simply be deemed unreliable.

 

I agree with the legislation portion, but that won't you get you anywhere on the companies forums.  That is for courts and other sources to determine.

 

The enchant rates where also hidden before.  Whether it was directly due to legistlation or not, it was also changed.

 

Also, if you don't ask about the loot tables, drops......... then you will simply never get anything.  Thus doing nothing ensures nothing gets done while asking may at the very least have some minimal factor.

15 919
Last Edit : Apr 2, 2021, 10:05 (UTC)
# 8
On: Apr 1, 2021, 23:45 (UTC), Written by Retteo

The information is verifiable via the code or private servers.  Any other information would simply be deemed unreliable.

 

I agree with the legislation portion, but that won't you get you anywhere on the companies forums.  That is for courts and other sources to determine.

 

The enchant rates where also hidden before.  Whether it was directly due to legistlation or not, it was also changed.

 

Also, if you don't ask about the loot tables, drops......... then you will simply never get anything.  Thus doing nothing ensures nothing gets done while asking may at the very least have some minimal factor.

 

Private servers cannot be considered even remotely close to the source of truth. Last I checked, PA revoked the publishing rights from Kakao, least to say given it to someone else. This means that whichever code is present on the private servers was either reverse-engineered from existing game or stolen via insider / other means. The former fails to provide insights into rng chances by definition, the latter has no guarantee of up-to date state (and in fact, in an event of the proprietary product leaking away, any company would go to a great extent to diverge their existing product from the leaked one)

 

As for legisation - that only goes to say that it's pointless to ask PA to disclose something on the forums. My point was exactly to show the futility of the forum attempts to make them reveal this information. And to illustrate - if anything can force them to do it - that's legislation. But we're here on the forums, not in the parlament, so.. tough luck.

Last Edit : Apr 2, 2021, 14:28 (UTC)
# 9
On: Apr 1, 2021, 23:45 (UTC), Written by Retteo

The information is verifiable via the code or private servers.  Any other information would simply be deemed unreliable.

 

I agree with the legislation portion, but that won't you get you anywhere on the companies forums.  That is for courts and other sources to determine.

 

The enchant rates where also hidden before.  Whether it was directly due to legistlation or not, it was also changed.

 

Also, if you don't ask about the loot tables, drops......... then you will simply never get anything.  Thus doing nothing ensures nothing gets done while asking may at the very least have some minimal factor.

Private servers ain't use the same code what PA use to run the game servers (unless they are stollen, but that would be crime).

Generally the software which runs server side on a private server created by reverse engineering the communication protocol, and then creating a software from scratch that behave as it would be the original one.

How they implement it is up to the guy implementing it, but probably even the Random number generator(as there are many different kind) is different compared to what PA use, and the parameters (drop rates) are certanly different.

 

Some data exits client side. Some purposely, some cause lazzyness, but drop informations generally don't exits client side in games hence you can't use it to validate it.

Yeah, in theory groverments could force them to show the code and the db which contains the drop informations, but it's a videogame. Noone cares about a videogame...

 

 

244 4634
Lv 62
Hnnie
Last Edit : Apr 2, 2021, 15:41 (UTC)
# 10
On: Apr 1, 2021, 20:34 (UTC), Written by Retteo

These questions have been around for years, but have never been officially answered.

 

-- Event Items --

Do these have their own specific drop tables in addition to regular drops?

 

Can an event item replace/over ride another item?

Rare Table -- Distortion Earring, Mass of Magic, Crystal) (1-3)

Does this become

Rare Table -- Distortion Earring, Mass of Magic, Crystal, Event item) (1-4)

 

-- Global Loot Control --

Is there ANY mechanism in place that takes into account the amount of players in ANY way (per server, globally, region) that affects other players drops?

 

Is there ANY control factor or limitation to special drops such as the Potion Pieces that limits the amount issued on a time bases or any other type of limitation?

This is one of my most favorite subjects, lets put on our tinfoil hats peoples and dig in :)

 

As far as your 1st question i am pretty sure that Event items are not listed in the rare sections as in the drop table pic below..

 

SE drop

I do beleive like gathering you have Basic, Special, Rare

Basic- junk loot and silver

Special- Other category Mass,Dust Ect. (this would include event drop items)

Rare - Accessories (Disto)

 

I am 100% sure Event Items do not Affect the drop rates of rare items BUT and this is a major BUT they do replace them and other mats from the entire drop table i am sure another math junky could jump in here and prove it easily but a simple example is in the stars end drop table you have a total of 9 items that can drop one of them being rare and you have your basic Trash drop. Your biggest chance to get a rare is on that 10th mob were if your node is lv10 you get an extra 50% so basically you have a 1 out of 9 to drop that rare item Disto at .0001% thats like throwing a baseball at a slot maching arm in hopes of starting the machine to hit the jackpot BUT as a whole its still a chance 1 out of 9 items now lets toss in an event item or sometime 4 like right now...

Event drops current-

Hexahedron

300% Kyve

Afru

Boss(rare mob)

These above are also Drop event triggers (I.e. Branch for afru unless your in a party you personally dont see them but your party member can) added into the drop table the main issue is that now especially durning event's your chances decrease with each new item in the over all table from 1 in 9 to 1 and 13 this decreases the Disto drop chances even further than what they are now. The are most def not added into the RARE section but they will in fact decrease the over all chances of getting it.

 

Now on to the last question and i beleive you stated the correct one even though PA will never disclose the exact loot table and how it works but with 1000's of hours of grinding under my belt i have noticed a lot of trends one of which is the over all popularity of congestion of a grinding spot.

Stars end after it 1st came out was not grinded much becouse it was touted as the "END GAME" grinding area with 260 ap most back then didnt have a super high GS. So when i started grinding there i had access to every rotation just about 100% of the time for months i avg 1-4 Disto per day on a 3-5 hour grind there was never a time i didnt get one. Fast forward to when agris came out part of the questline was to kill mobs at stars end THIS is what changed stars end forever... PEOPLE realized they can grind there especially with the new class Guardian efficiantly So almost over night it went from one of the less populated grinding spots to one of the most active...

As soon as every spot became contested and the area became a complete waste of time to grind due to toxic players, DFS over population my Distortion drops went from 1-4 per day to one as in a single Disto drop every 15-30 hours. This would lead me to beleive that the actual rare drops are "POOL" related meaning that only so many are available to gain in a period of time and or the more "RARE" items drop the lower the % change to get them goes this also reflects in the market prices that pretty much remain fixed at 275-330 mil since they came out and have never changed no mater how many players grind there.

 

Tin foil hat i know but this would also explain a majority of the same type of inconsitant drops at every location and now the Elvia servers or Hadum area's dont seem to suffer from this becouse there is no "Rare" drop and no matter how many players i see grind there the money has remained consistant for me this is more than enough for me to continue to grind there. Anyway hope this helps.

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