100% worth it to get the win button that is grab.

Grab classes can blow up people just as well, except of course they also have a grab for some reason. Nothing else in BDO is as low-risk/high-reward, counters everything while having no counter, as grab though. All the other 'strenghts' have to play by strict rules of SA/FG, but grab classes get to override it exlusively, that's the issue. Let alone that that some of the 'strenghts' of some non-grab classes are eclipsed by others that also have a grab.

Grab is extremely powerful in pvp, AOS is no exception. Pretending it is not hihgly decisive is stright up lying. Even known AOS streamers joke about it, like "oh 3 grab classes versus 3 non-grab classes, this is already over." Everyone knows grab is a big deciding factor, but when it comes time to vote on it, some (not all) grab-class players try to minimize the strenght of grab but contradictively also attempt to avoid even suggesting distributing it to everyone.

I agree, the best solution would be to remove grabs entirely (making them not go through SA/FG), but unfortunately that's not one of the 3 options presented. I too want less classes like awakened ranger, which like u said is a better iframe spammer even above sorc and yet has an unreactable grab as well! But that will be a battle for a different day, for now I think the unfairness should at least be spread more evenly in order to achieve better fairness.

This might work against distracted people, not for players that are focused. GRJ will instantly be punished by SA+DPS+debuffs or a grab because it has a slower casting time than grab and needs to be withing grab range, in other words grab counters everything and has no counter. The sorc will not be dpsing anyone in the middle of an enemy ball unless she outgears severely or the enemies are very bad, because idk if u know but sorc damage isn't iframed (nor should it be) and she can be killed dps'ed in an instant or grabbed if she tried to finish ppl she CC'd from the ball. On the other hand, kuno/ninja can fight very similarly, lahns can outdo sorcs at this, berzerks can even grab targets once they dive in, and guess what? All of these have grabs except for sorc, but according to you its fair to just leave sorc without the grab, but the others can keep it for no reason at all even when they clearly outdo the sorc? Sorc is presently a dead class in pvp, no one in their right mind would rerol to one right now, but it is sorc and other non-grab classes that are the problem, not the grab... /sarcasm

Cool, since according to you classes without grab should 100% win rounds by themself and that makes it balanced, lets buff all non-grab classes to that level then. Wait, how does that even fix anything when no matter how much damage you deal if you get grabbed you lose?

Id rather you stop pretending (yep the delusional bit) that grabs are not a win button since if you get grabbed, you 100% get blown up no matter how hard you try to 1v3 or whatever ur doing, but sure. It's a brain dead take.

That's what called "skill issue" nowadays in gaming (basically everywhere not just BDO), play something extremely OP and tryhard to make it look like nothing wrong about it, its just player very skilled and opponent have "skill issue". Its like complaing that fixing FPS exploit will make some classes unplayable.  Exactly same situation with grabs, once grabs gets balanced, those "skilled players" will be who they are - players with the skill issue.

Also the classic on BDO forum, unlinked account saying that grab is balanced and DK performing well.

Very well said!

Very well said again. People that defend grab belonging exclusively to some classes but not others often try to minimize their importance and influence a grab has in the final outcome, but it is undeniable in any form of pvp you chose. As I said before, everyone, even streamers will joke about a match being already over when they see in AOS 3 grab classes against 3 non-grab classes. It is just undeniable to think that the non-grab classes will need to put in far more effort if the are to win. What I really like about your comment is no one will never ever consider a class with a lack of a grab to have an advantage on its own, because nothing else you can give to this class presently can ignore all protections and have no counter to itself like a grab skill can.

I have alluded to it before, BDO pvp presently is the worst of any major game out right now. I myself pvp all the time and I have never seen combat so unbalanced and so many press-key-to-win mechanics as in BDO. There is indeed a lot to talk about other than grab, and if I have refrained from doing so it is only because of the scope of this topic. To me, BDO pvp was at it's fairest as it existed just before the introduction of Succession mode, after that happened, the developer went back on their word of not giving protected cc's and it's been nothing but win mechanics like that ever since; and yet still everything pales in comparison to how influential a grab is to decide the outcome of pvp. But I digress, giving grabs to all class should help at least address one of the major factors of class imbalance.

Very nice post!

I'll make it even more simple : 

You quote yourself, you don't hesitate to bring your status as a pvper, you even dare to call the "world" to back up your words. But as long as your reasoning relies on "Iframe is not a counter to grab", your reasoning crumbles by itself. Iframe counters EVERYTHING, grab included. 

The irony is that you don't even realize Iframe should sound as awful as grab, if we follow your reasoning : 

 - there's no way to react to it 

 - It negates everything and make your opponent blows his CDs

But when one should be nuanced and think "Too much iframe, in addition to other strengths, would make a class OP", you come here with the absurd conclusion that the mechanics (grab, in the thing you dare to call "essay") is the root of all evil and should be deleted. Way to burn everything to the ground, all because of your personal obsession.

Anyway, what else could we expect from someone resorting to examples like "octillion damage" or "150 mph car" ; just open your eyes, good players keep on trying to predict everything, movement, defences, even grabs. That's the idea. And your exaggerations changes nothing to that. Players are trying to bait defences to break through them, they're also trying to bait CCs to make their opponents blow up their CD. 

Not to mention, what kills you is not the grab itself. It's the burst coming after that, and guess what? It is the same with many CCs. And some classes are able to burst you through defences too, no CC nor grab needed. 

And quote devs saying grab is too much of a game changer. No interpretation allowed. In a discussion about defences, it is logical to bring the mechanics made to break through them : yet here you are, trying to put words in their mouth. Proof is, "even offering to give it to everyone to makeit fair" : did you miss the sentence in which they said it would come with a nerf in other strengths?

Let's balance everything, including grabs if needed, but your desire to burn grab at all costs is stupid. You have no nuance, your so-called "solution" brings nothing except lost time, lost identities... But you don't care, you said it.

Learn from PeaceInChaos and add some nuances. Or just stop your tantrum.

Now, just compare zerk grab, striker grab, tamer grab... Or even, is succ tamer as efficient as an awak tamer? It should be, if it all comes down to the presence of a grab.

And just a final reminder, even the "octillion-damage skill" would be negated by an iframe. Burn iframe too! XD

AAaaah but my bad, you're ok to lose your iframes. But will it still be a sorcerer? As if Sorc had to bow down to anyone.

I can tell some of you didn't read the op. This whole idea is to balance after giving everyone a grab which would include adjustments both ways

You kinda of just ignoring facts and data as this simply isn't true.

https://www.naeu.playblackdesert.com/en-US/News/Detail?groupContentNo=4164&countryType=en-US

I already posted this graphic from Season 1 previously, which shows how most Damage, most Kills, most MVPs, most Aces were all lead by grabless classes in Musa, DK, and Sorc.  Proving my point that grabless classes do well at their job which is putting out damage, getting kills, killing people standing, SA trading, etc. I think we all know Succ Drak was also doing insane damage and is grabless. 

If they made this graphic for Season 2, any reasonable person would predict Succ Mague and Succ Sage are competing for most MVPs, Kills, and Damage--both grabless classes.

Season 3, there were alot more classes to be fearful of compared to the first two, from what I recall, likely to be on the list for most MVPs, Kills, Damage are: Awakening Drak, Succ Sage, Succ Maewha, Woosa. Grabless classes performed well Season 3 too.

Also, nobody is saying that grab is not powerful--it is. That's not the debate.  It's you guys without grabs, pretending like your class cannot function without a grab, complaining that you NEED a grab to perform, when everything I've posted above shows that's just NOT TRUE.  Leading in MVP, Kills, Damage, Aces is not enough, now you want to lead in CC too? You are asking to be the best in every category and that's an absolute bull shit request. 

Again just totally false. Not true. Grabs are an unprotected cc, and unprotected ccs, by definition, are a risk because they are unprotected. Your statement is absurd and has no basis in objective reality.  Although again, I will concede ranger and tamer are exceptions, their grabs seem virtually unpunishable even though unprotected, there is not much risk there. But they are exceptions, not the rule. You can definitley bait and punish alot of grabs either due to the start up animation or the end lag on the animation. 

The Irony of this being that you don't speak korean and you didn't post this on the Korean forums = you are also being ignored by default

Which is the same as creating an even bigger mess before making adjustments.

The obsession about grab is the problem of this whole topic, you clearly don't want some classes to have a grab.

As mentioned in this topic, a rework on defences would be a better way to start. Only then, along with other adjustments, can grabs be reworked. 

But going for a "let's give a grab to everyone, then rework" is nothing more than the best way to lose time.