Beautiful analysis of the meaningless consolation price that is getting an ACE in AOS and still losing; like u said, it is dependent on if ur team has a grab class because lets see how far damage alone takes u in trying to break a FG in AOS while getting in range of the enemy grab too. It is mind boggling the mental gymnastics some grab class players here are going through to defend this mechanic and saying that it is somehow fair. I have noted this before, even prominent BDO AOS streamers laugh and mock the situation when they see 3 grab classes versus 3 non-grab classes, how well are those non-grab strengths that you speak of of any use here? lol; everyone knows the disparity deep down that having a win-button like grab brings, Everyone agrees that grabs are a win button, some of us point it out with words, the rest point it out by selecting a grab class and wanting silence. it is that simple.

You missed their point entirely. That mvp comes from the dynamic of having grabs in your team, see how far only damage goes when it's 3x grabs vs 3x non-grabs, the latter have to put in far more effort and damage alone isn't particularly that helpful in AOS.

As usual the typical argument trying to prove that grabs are balanced because non-grabs have things to compensate with. if getting MVP or ace was so influential in determining that a class is balanced, why don't u explain to us all why a class like sorc, who got most MVP's according to your cited infographic, why then is sorc so under-represented in the top 100 leaderboard? It can actually be argued that grab classes do less damage because they just use grab and dps once and the fight ends. while the non-grab have to dps multiple times and fail sometimes to kill the opponent, since they dont have the option to grab and therefore cc as much, so non-grab classes tend to prolong the fight more and thus end up doing more damage. There is your reason, entirely consistent with why a class like sorc whi hast most MVP has such low representation in the top 100 leaderboard (0x representation in the current leaderboard in NA, the last time I checked EU it wasn't different by more than 2x). Your argument trying to justify not everyone having a grab falls flat on its face. By your logic sorcs should be leading the top 100.

Lol you go ahead and spam your useless new iframe bound on low stamina all you want, meanwhile I'll press my newly given grab and lay you flat on your back like a tortilla! The best trade off of the century, the art of the deal! :)

You know well there is nothing else you can ask for that can compete with grab, not damage, not iframe, only grab is a true win-button in this game; that's why you prefer to keep things the way they are, and surprise surprise, you just happen to play the grab class, what a coincidence!

You will never be able to defend a grab the way it is currently in bdo: having no counter and countering everything, low-risk/high reward. Do let me know when your puny iframe CC's me through my SA/FG or my new grab. :)

By your logic, give every class 360 SA block too!

?

lol, no. Iframe counters a grab in the same way you would counter a racing car coming at u at 150mph while you had your legs tied up and could only jump around. Notice that in either case, be it the grab attempt or the attmept to dodge the racing car, in neither case there is any punishment for the aggressor (the grab user or the car driver) for missing, in the slight chance it misses (hence why grabs are low-risk/high-reward and counter everything while having no counter). Calling iframe a counter to grab is therefore idiotic given that 5-10 frames out of 60FPS is hardly humanly-reactable to and more in the realm of pure chance.

You know what would really be an actual counter to grab? Something like grab having a full 1.5 seconds of casting time and if the grabee reacts within that timeframe then the grabber gets knocked down and punished for having had their grab countered. Contrary to what you suggest, where if the grab misses it's just "oops, wait for grab cooldown and try again." The latter is exactly how it is presently and why grab is the lowest risk and highest reward skill, and why it needs to be abolished from the game or in the least given to every class to make the unfairness evenly distributed.

"Grabbing is the most powerful of the status ailments" -- Pearl Abyss, BDO developer, 2023

You mean like this little cutesy statement from the developer which crashed your entire world around the lie that grab doesn't make a difference? :)

The reality seems to point that u are just weak and desperately need a grab to carry you. What other logicalal explanation can there be for someone that refuses to give up their win-button?

And lol about "get better like most of us". Spoken like a true grab class. We both know once that grab isn't exclusive to u that u will be flat on the ground. :)

omg this argument again? why do u guys make my life so easy? Are you trying to make my arguments look good in front of the developer? :) I literally just have to copy/paste my old counter-argument for the millionth time:

I have heard the pseudo-argument saying that this modality of a class with grab skill against a class without a grab skill is somehow fair because the class without a grab has to patiently wait for the right time to strike while all the time trying to trade damage and getting in range of the grab just to try to fish for that CC... Well how convenient it is to make such a remark from such a high horse! Why should the Grab class have that constant Joker card under their sleeve while the other class has to play under the unfair condition that she may get grabbed at any time while trying to do her work without a grab? This is no argument, either both classes have a grab skill, or preferably none have it. Why should one class always be the hunter, the aggressor, and the other has to always be the unfavored underdog, the prey? This is not balance. No one can tell me grab is fair until they have played as their main character a class with no grab skills from the past two years to present day, because then they would understand the underlying lack of balance that the grab skill brings to BDO.

Before you think you are checkmating anyone with an argument no one has thought of before to defend the indefensible win-button that is grab, I suggest you read my essay where I debunk all arguments in favor of grab: [link] If you actually can come up with something I haven't heard before I'll debunk it and then add it to that essay, in that order, so far I only heard one that i had forgot to cover and which I already added to my essay.

Moronic take, only if you consider grab as a "I win" button.

But we only see baseless complaints here, and fallacies. 

That's even more funny to read you when you rage against "grab classes" and mention classes which have far more strengths than a simple grab, succ zerk being the most obvious example of such an absurd accumulation.

On the other hand, you only mention tamer when you want to suggest that I shouldn't talk because I'm a filthy grab class. 

In short, you do realize the real problem but you chose the easy answer. Laziness as its best.

Now, you want to remove my only grab and emphasize my other strengths? Be my guest, but don't complain afterwards.

Or even better, play my class, awak or succ, and see the difference between the dream and the reality. If you listen to players, Tamer is a good duelist, that's true, it has a grab, that's also true. Now, despite that, Tamer is not played by a lot of players. I wonder why? With such a description, all FOTM players should play it...

You have more chances to land another CC than to land a direct grab. Just try and see. ;) 

Yep, devs said that. They said ONLY that. 

The rest is your interpretation. That's exactly the same problem with "Iframe does not counter grab", it's only your baseless, senseless statement.

No class should lose one of its strengths based on your clueless crusade. That's why we don't want to see grab blindly removed or added, as any tool grab is only a part of the whole balance. It's not the source of all evil, as if streamlining it would miraculously solve all balance issues or even simply offer a better ground for a balance rework. Far from it. 

XD

Can't you type me something I don't know?

I was tryin to stai away from this topic because I read some absurd things here...

To A72391... to claim that kuno is better evader than sorc is absur. To claim that i-frame is not the tool to escape grab is nothing but lack of knowledge about the game. Dont take this as flame, but a friendly advise. Go see some streamers, go talk with some players. Go play more you class and learn more about the other classes. Not gona say more about this.

Now on topic itself... If the devs gona make such changes to add grab to everyone or to remove it from all, this will lead to many and big changes to many classes, because some classes will have too many powers. Not that curent state is good. But is better to nerf some classes than to rework all of them.

The best way will be to be classeass separated by having grab, having i-frames, having great mobility, having perma SA. When class has all of this makes abomination. Keeping them seperate will be more balanced and will have more diferent playstyles.

From what devs proposed I would go for More FG less SA. But still needs reworks. And at the moment PA is not any good at anything...