Claudia - while I don't condone the dogpile bullying underway here, I disagree with you.  Grabs are critical elements for many classes and can be avoided.  Removing them would introduce a massive number of new issues.

Yes, surely, kuno does not deserve a grab because poor sorcs struggling out here. It's such an unfair mechanic! A sorc should never be cc'd and the only reason these plebs can ever beat us is because of filthy, unfair grabs. Oh, woe is me, the pitiful sorc main! We should have grabs and drak levels of mobility! Yeah, that's the only way it'll be fair! /s

Nevermind the fact that the reality is you actually can't cc a sorc without a grab AND a slow put on them because of their asinine reboot and subsequent buffs making them virtually gapless. Side note, do you throw a smile at the end of every one of your insane takes because you're a clown? Or are you just trying to be that more insufferable?

Does an awakening ninja deserve a grab mommy? 

if I was being grabbed that often I wouldn't have the kill count I have. :) Even if i was the least skillful player ever, it would still change nothing I have said here because I have never ever complained here nor anywhere that the problem with grabs is that I can't handle them, of course you can handle grabs, in the same way you handle someone that has a skill that does a quintillion damage, you have to put in 3x the effort than the palyer with the grab-skill, and play super defensive all while the player with a grab can just enjoy the benefit of knowing that the moment you use a prolonged animation within their range then they will win. I like your post because by you trying to shift the grabs problem on my skill rather than it being a win-button, you expose the real reason why I complain about grabs, because it just makes pvp too easy for anyone that has it. Grabs should not exists in this game the way they do, they should be removed and turned into normal CC's tghat respect SA/FG, or in the very least given to every class which would instantly get rid of so many one-sided fights where those without a grab have to put in 3x the effort and skill than the player with a grab, I think that's what u are scared of deep down. There is a reason why everyone leaves sorc for classes like kuno and ninja, and you are a great example!

I couldn't have said it better myself! Ironic how even someone that prefers PvE in this case knows more about pvp than the players who say they pvp but are also mostly just grinders that occasionally require gear or class advantages to perform in pvp. So well said! :) Pvp which is as imbalanced as current BDO only servers to push away players with actual skill because now it is mostly only those that go with the flow and reroll. There is a lot of hypocrisy to expose but the good thing is at the end of the day it is the developer in KR who will judge, not the players that beg for win-mechanics through clearly flawed reasoning and who try to derail the topic of grab to a mere skill issue. lol

It is thanks to ALL those who complained about the ridiculously overpowered mechanics that today's PVP is not a lost cause; thanks to all those that complained about mystic release, thanks to all those that complained about succession-wizard; the case against grab is much more of an uphill battle because 2/3 are in favor of being the new mystic class of 2018(?), 2/3 are the succession wizard of 2019(?), AND THAT is precisely the main topic of this thread and why I made it, it is not required for the 2/3 to recognize its premise in order to expose what is factual, and it so too counts with the developer paying attention. But ultimately that is what will define if the future of pvp in bdo will spiral out into "everyone can win" or into actually recognizing skilled players rather than those with win-button mechanics. I myself have no plans to participate in a game that does not rely on skill and requires me to be 3x better than the other side. Although, I do not plan on stopping the submission of any of my feedback.

One does not even necessarily need to play this game to arrive to the right conclusion based on the facts. Show pro-players from skill-based games (instantly throws out most mmo's) what a grab does in bdo and their jaw will drop. The developer should be ashamed for letting a skill like grabs go unchecked for long, but thankfully they are at least starting to admit it is at least the most powerful.

I agree with you about the imbalances regarding grinding efficiency. But we must be impartial in all cases, not just the ones that aren't convenient to us. When succession sorc was released, I was too was saying that it had too much damage and it got nerfed accordingly. The problem is that not all players do this when it's their class. Win mechanics need to be recognized and addressed by the developer whether its mystic on release or grabs being a win button.

I would not be in a guild either if it weren't for old friends and the inherent membership buffs for pvp. But to your point, there is no need for someone to partake in pvp to be able to tell you things like the grab-skill being a win button, you can find veterans and new players alike holding this opinion, and so too for the opposite opinion. The key lies in who present the objective facts of how grab is indeed a win button. Once we recognize that we can proceed to either removing it or at least giving one to every class.

Once again, if you were to show some of the skilless win mechanics to players from other games that are skill-based, their jaws would drop. The developer and their game are starting to build a reputation for that; skilled players that try a game like bdo and see the grab-skill or reroll-to-win mechanics are likely not only leaving the game prematurely but talking badly about their experience once they move on to better and more balanced games.

Overall, I think u seem to agree that there are major problems in bdo but for some reason condone the grab-skill which is objectively a win mechanic in the current way bdo implements it.

 

Columba! I have been 1vX'ing/fighting outnumbered and winning long before BDO! I am in my element ^.^

And everyone's opinion on the topic is always welcome if they think they have a solid case to present, that is the whole purpose of making this post!

But I have to respectfully disagree with you. From my very prolonged experience in pvp, I can confidently say that there is presently not a single class duo (the succ/awa alternative) in bdo that needs the grab, and I can prove this too: Anyone name me a class you think would become useless without the win-mechanic that is the grab-skill, and I will point out to you their strengths and I will even add in a class that is forced to play like that on top of not having a grab-skill at all.

From my experience, I have seen what would be otherwise extremely well-balanced and prolonged matchups (even highly skillful!) that could go on for minutes of playing chess-like trades, but instead get instantly ended by the grab-skill. Grabs do not add anything to pvp but make it worse. What would be an enjoyable matchup to watch, to see who can use their kit better, all of a sudden is ENTIRELY overridden by this single skill (the grab-skill) which overrides/ignores the opponent's entire kit. All grabs add to pvp is a gamble mechanic on a cooldown timer to see if you get an instant win or not (with very good anti-resistance odds at that to add insult to injury).

I truly believe, and welcome discussion on, that if grabs were either completely removed or given to every class, very little adjustments would be needed.

Other classes are mostly as "gapless" as sorc these days (ignoring 1vX ofc), unless you aren't properly keeping your defenses up. The main difference is some classes like kuno would STILL remain essentially a buffed sorc even without the grab. For example, the sorc vs kuno/ninja matchup; it is usually an extremely balanced fight if we ignore the moment the grab-skill gets used, about the same trades in damage, FG/SA; but guess what tips it to one side and is usually the ending move? yes! the skill that ignores the entire enemy's kit! I am of course talking about the grab-skill. Just remove grabs for a month and look at matchup like these again, the win rate in such case is likely going to be 50-50 unlike how it is now where the grab-class has the higher chance by mere virtue of their class having an undeserved grab-skill. And all of this is of course assuming that players are similarly matched skill-wise.

There is not a single class in this game that needs the grab skill, much less that needs it to be exclusive to their class. Grab is only there for players with skill issues to feel like they are significant in pvp with little effort.

Well I hope someone doesn't sic her bois on you.  take care!