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UTC 20 : 54 May 14, 2024
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#Suggestions
Introduce a way to protect your grinding spot
Apr 5, 2024, 16:53 (UTC)
281 13
1 2
Last Edit : Apr 5, 2024, 17:00 (UTC)
# 1

Family Name: Xaza

Region (NA/EU): EU


With the current state and new changes coming (in global lab) to the Open World/Karma System, there are exactly 0 ways a player could try to protect their spot. This is especially troublesome at good /contested spots and specific times (after most people come back from school/work for example).

Currently what a player could do is:

- Go to Marni - not always good/efficient and lasts an hour. If the player plays for 4 hours a day - this is 2 hours of grind in peace at a not always good/efficient spot (in some places the zone is fine until you start oneshoting the mosnters and require additional extensions
- Ask for DFS (Duel for Spot) - not always respected
- PK them - most of the time achieves nothing. They dont lose anything and will show in 30 seconds again while you lose Karma and cannot kill inifintely them unless you want to suffer
- Change Channel - would work, if the spot is not contested and/or it is unpopular time of the day for grinding. Most contested places are crowded with players in every server at around 17-21 CET. Additionally there is no way you could know if the spot is taken on another channel unless you check yourself.
- Grind over them until they leave оr force them to flag up and kill them - Not ideal, you waste time/silver/buffs and they might not give up. Also not okay :)

I see 4 possible (still not perfect - but can be further improved with enough feedback) solutions that I would like to suggest and discuss.
Before that a few disclaimers:
I like fair (so 1v1s, 2v2s, with similar GS) open world PvP. I feel like the dec changes were necessarry but do not solve the problem. Open world PvP should always be fair, fun and never onesided, because of that, guild vs guild (impossible to be fair) or any kind of ganks/ambushes (1vs2/1vs3) should not be accepted/tolarated or incentivized.

Solution 1: Monster/Spot Kill Trackers (Reserved Mobs/Spots)
- Implement a way the game could track which player killed which mob/mob pack X (lets say 5) times for the last X (lets say 5) minutes. That way if a new player comes and decides to kill these mobs, he would gain no loot from them and the initial player would be able to get the loot as long as he continues to grind the specific mob/mob packs.
- If at any point Player A fails to reach the given goals, Player B could "claim" the specific mobs/mob packs and future loot. In a way this is a form of PvP, since you naturally compete with player for the resources on that spot by grinding faster/more efficient that them. In case a player decides to overextend and leave monsters alive for too long, someone else could easily claim them.
- The number of mob kills and for last minutes has to be conviniently shown somehow so both players would be aware.
- Boss mobs spawned should be claimed by the player who has a claim on the monster that summoned the boss (not always possible)

Example: Player A starts grinding main Red Orc rotation, player B comes and starts grinding over him. Since Player A has killed the monsters that have spawned there for at least 5 times in the last 5 minutes - all the loot that dropped from the monsters Player B killed would be lootable only for Player A. At some point Player A decides to overextend to kill a few more mob packs, leaving some of the monsters alive for Player B to kill repetatively - resulting in Player B claiming these mob packs.

Solution 2: Spot Rivalries - Improved and Incentivized DFS
- Make it possible to declare rivals - either automatic (if the player repetatively kills the mosnters you kill or you have an auto-rival toggle button) or manual.
- Rivaled player gets notified and has 1-2 minutes to prepare for a fight or leave.
- Fights can be scheduled or just like flagging up - with the difference that you cannot be ganked by multiple people. Should there be 5 people that have rivaled themselves, the game should allow only 1 on 1 fights. One way to achieve this would be to prevent players from damaging players that have already started fighting each other. To prevent exploiting this - the duration for the 1v1 should be no longer than 1 minute. Alterantively they could enter another realm for the fight
- Neither players can get help from party memebers/guild members in any kind (buffs included) unless both are in equal sized/geared parties (for group grind zones).
- Respawns are free and on the spot (without losing exp/crystals or buffs and with spawn protection), but on every kill, the killer would gain a small sum of silver from the killed player depending on ther GS and their GS difference (lets say from 5% of your GS if both players are equal, 1% if the significantly weaker player dies, 10% if the significantly stronger player dies). This is to compensate the players for the lost time/money (in case other sets/elixirs have to be used) and would reduce the amount of players that just want to disrupt and annoy players.
- If there is more than X (lets say 50) GS difference between the players, they could not be rivals - this is to limit the end game player unfair advantage while grinding on super low GS grind spots. There could be more rivalry requirements added if needed. One that come to mind is force a player to grind at least 5 minutes before he could rival someone - to try to prevent PvPers rivaling players with no intentions to grind.
- Should be possible to go negative on silver or the rivalry should end in which case the player without silver should be denied from the spot somehow.. (Solution3 could fix this). If going to negative silver is allowed, measures such as (but not only) disabling rivalry for GS < 600 might be required to reduce fake accounts/botting.

Example: Player A starts grinding main Red Orc rotation, player B comes and starts grinding over him. Player A decides to rival Player B in a way to protect his spot. Player B recieves the notification and decides to either leave this spot/rotation/server, go to marni or prepare for the fight/s. In case the duration of 1-2 minutes has passed, both players start fighting. After the fight has been resolved (either in the other realm or not), the winner gets compensated with a bit of silver and the loser gets loses a bit of silver but keeps his buffs/elixirs/exp/crystals, respawns immidietly and decides to try again. At some point player B decides that he cannot beat player A and leaves to reduce his silver loss (griefing is not possible since Player A is technically not completely wasting his time, but gaining a bit of silver every time)

Solution 3: Solution1 + Solution2
- If we combine both of my suggestions we get a system in which if you have grinded specific monster/monster packs repetatively they would be yours to loot unless someone rivals and kills you in a as fair as possible fight.
- The "claimed" monster/monster packs could be claimed naturally by the stronger player as the weaker one would not be able to kill the monsters fast enough to keep the claim. Alternatively after someone dies, their claimed monster/monster packs could be inherited by their killer.

Solution 4: More Channels/Better Marni
- This would patch instead of fix the problem, but is a possible solution nonetheless.. Better Marni zones, which are stackable for 2 hours would be sufficient for most players
- I personally dont like these ones as they reduce how much players interact with each other. BDO is a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game, but I often feel like its played as a solo game 99% of the time

Solutions 2-3 are obvioulsy not for casual/non-pvp players, but make the most sense to me. Solution 1 has the flaw that you could be playing a very good class with good lightstone/crystal setup and basically be able to outclaim every spot in the game easily without anyone able to defend it - which is almost the same as what we have now since the Karma System is flawed.

I am aware that these suggestions are not perfect and a lot of things have to be considered, but I feel like the current "protect your spot" system we have is non existent. I would much prefer to get killed somewhat fairly than to get my loot, boss and time stolen from someone that just wants to grief for fun - without being able to do anything in return.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter - lets make the game better! :)
5 10
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Xexaza
Last Edit : Apr 5, 2024, 17:31 (UTC)
# 2

These are all pretty good ideas.

I think it'd be pretty cool to, instead of seeing a player as only red when they flag up, we could see them as a range of color depending on how their stats compare to our own stats. Kind of the same as it is when we see mobs with their range of colors. If I were grinding and some PVPer came in with purple, I'd know that I would probably no match against them and I'd just bounce to another server. Then red would signify some still above our own stats, but not as much. White would be within a range close to our own and a fight/duel would actually feel worth doing and fun. Green would be someone less than you in ability. Gray would be like beating someone up with lifeskill gear on. The color could just always be there, and there could be that sword symbol (that you click to flag up) glowing next to their name to signify that they have indeed flagged up with the intent to fight whether they are someone with a gray name in farming gear all the way to some geared out vet with their name in purple.

Anyway, there's some more input on the topic of PVP.

Last Edit : Apr 5, 2024, 20:16 (UTC)
# 3

This is not your spot, this is not your rotation, these are not your mobs; when will you understand this?
Play in marni or don't play at all. Problem solved.

And the solution to the problem is, and I talked about it a long time ago: unlimited marni for all zones in the game.

Last Edit : Apr 5, 2024, 20:49 (UTC)
# 4
On: Apr 5, 2024, 20:02 (UTC), Written by Senemedar

This is not your spot, this is not your rotation, these are not your mobs; when will you understand this?
Play in marni or don't play at all. Problem solved.

And the solution to the problem is, and I talked about it a long time ago: unlimited marni for all zones in the game.

I feel like you read the title and decided to comment without reading even half of the post.

It is not your spot, sorry I should have named the title ".. a way to protect the spot you currently grind at/a way to gain a temporary claim on a given spot someone else is grinding at". Would that be a better title?

Your suggestion is the easiest solution that would destroy any form of PvP, PvE and whatever little multiplayer content there is. There would be no reason to have monsters outside of marni at all. Dont get me wrong Marni should exist, exactly for players that do not want to partake in any form of player interaction (or for players that want to chill for a few hours/days/weeks). For the rest of us, there should be a normal working system.

By your logic - there are plenty of games out there which you could play completely solo with no other players and interference. Unlimited Marni makes no sense and never will in a MMORPG unless there is a reason to grind outside of marni as well. Should there be a reason, there would need to be a system to defend said spots hence by suggestions.

5 10
Lv Private
Xexaza
Last Edit : Apr 5, 2024, 21:11 (UTC)
# 5
On: Apr 5, 2024, 20:48 (UTC), Written by Xaza

Your suggestion is the easiest solution that would destroy any form of PvP, 

How my solution destroys:

- arsha channels

- rbf

- battle arena

- arena or arsha

- arena of solare

- guild wars

- node wars

- conquest wars

- war of the roses?

Yes, it does not destroy in any way.

On: Apr 5, 2024, 20:48 (UTC), Written by Xaza

 Unlimited Marni makes no sense and never will in a MMORPG 

How many mmo games have you played? 1, 2, 3? Because I have played almost all of them that exist or existed and I remember at least 3 games based solely on the solo instance system (with coop. party as an option).

It's funny that you don't want others on "your" spot and at the same time you would play like crazy 24/7 marni if you had the opportunity.

Last Edit : Apr 5, 2024, 21:17 (UTC)
# 6

I actively avoid others' rotations. If I accidently run into them, I apologize.  WHen someone rolls up to where I am already grinding I do the following.  Works 95% of the time:

1.  Greet them - Hello

2. "I will be here for about xx more minutes, finishing off a daily/guild mission, etc."  Usually no more than an hour

3. " I would be happy to let you know when I am finished."

4. 95% of the time they appreciate it and leave or ask to join me in party.  I am happy to have them join me in party.

5. If they flag up and/or gank me: "YOu know, I don't mind the pvp practice, but you are going to waste a lot more time this way. I have 400+ Elion's tears, and I am not leaving.  I will happily keep you flagged.  Your choice."

6. After a few fights, most of them leave.  The most inconsiderate/stubborn ones give me plenty of pvp practice.  I usually change my crystals, weapon and buffs for pvp, and I win about half the fights.  If they go red, all the more entertaining.  I've never had anyone stay more than 20 minutes.

Last Edit : Apr 5, 2024, 21:18 (UTC)
# 7
On: Apr 5, 2024, 20:02 (UTC), Written by Senemedar

This is not your spot, this is not your rotation, these are not your mobs; when will you understand this?
Play in marni or don't play at all. Problem solved.

And the solution to the problem is, and I talked about it a long time ago: unlimited marni for all zones in the game.

It's just rude and inconsiderate to deliberately disrupt someone else's rotation.  If you want respect, you should show some yourself

Last Edit : Apr 5, 2024, 21:38 (UTC)
# 8
On: Apr 5, 2024, 21:18 (UTC), Written by Columba

 If you want respect, you should show some yourself

Where is your respect?

On: Apr 5, 2024, 21:17 (UTC), Written by Columba

5. If they flag up and/or gank me: "YOu know, I don't mind the pvp practice, but you are going to waste a lot more time this way. I have 400+ Elion's tears, and I am not leaving.  I will happily keep you flagged.  Your choice."

In other words, you won't leave the spot because you also think it's "yours".
And I do exactly the same thing, only I don't put it in beautiful words like you do.

This game is intended by its creators to create conflicts between players, but the players don't want that. Players want a quiet grind without interacting with other players. That's the problem. Unless PA understand that their "vision" of the game is not consistent with what the players expect, we can spend next 8 years discussing who is right.

Last Edit : Apr 5, 2024, 21:45 (UTC)
# 9
On: Apr 5, 2024, 21:38 (UTC), Written by Senemedar

Where is your respect?

In other words, you won't leave the spot because you also think it's "yours".
And I do exactly the same thing, only I don't put it in beautiful words like you do.

This game is intended by its creators to create conflicts between players, but the players don't want that. Players want a quiet grind without interacting with other players. That's the problem. Unless PA understand that their "vision" of the game is not consistent with what the players expect, we can spend next 8 years discussing who is right.

Lol.  I won't leave a spot because I don't think it's theirs. If I am there first, I see no reason to leave.  I also don't go out of my way to grief others.  Carry on with your crusade, though.  I don't seem to have the problems with gankers you do.  Try using better words

Last Edit : Apr 5, 2024, 22:44 (UTC)
# 10
On: Apr 5, 2024, 21:06 (UTC), Written by Senemedar

How my solution destroys:

- arsha channels

- rbf

- battle arena

- arena or arsha

- arena of solare

- guild wars

- node wars

- conquest wars

- war of the roses?

Yes, it does not destroy in any way.

How many mmo games have you played? 1, 2, 3? Because I have played almost all of them that exist or existed and I remember at least 3 games based solely on the solo instance system (with coop. party as an option).

It's funny that you don't want others on "your" spot and at the same time you would play like crazy 24/7 marni if you had the opportunity.

I don't get why you have to nitpick every word I say just to prove your point. None of the content you listed (except arsha) has anything to do with the topic - open world pvp (or I guess grinding 1v1 pvp  - don't know how would this be even classified). Also most of the content cannot be destroyed cause its either dead or slowly dying because of multiple other issues I wont cover here.

There are plenty of people that want to PvP when neccessarry/when the risk/reward and time/reward is worth it. As someone that used to grind arsha non-stop, I quite enjoyed getting stomped at first and getting slowly better and better with time. I believe there are numerous players like me that would engage in casual PvP if there is some incentive to do so (no, the 50% drop rate is not enough unless its 5AM and everybody is asleep which destroys the whole arsha concept). You literally go on a chaotic, sometimes fun place where you 1v1v1v1v1 players with different skill level, gs, crystals and whatnot. Its not fair (doesn't have to be, its arsha after all) and is not profitable at all. Why would anyone bother with 50% drop rate arsha if you would lose time to fight people, money on elixirs when you die and in the end kill at least 50% less mobs. Fun is nice and all but most people want to be able to progress as well.
 
I've played more than enough MMOs - not that this should matter, terrible argument. Again dont get why you have to be so passive agressive - I am trying to suggest a different approach to a problem we have now. Life is not binary your opinion is not the only one there.

There aren't many MMOs like BDO where grinding is literally the core of the game, there aren't many MMOs like BDO where the combat is dynamic action based allowing for enteratining PvE and PvP for hours. I dont see many of these games prospering - would love to see which you have in mind so that we could compare different aspects and analyze, ohterwise this discussion is pointless. Curious to learn why you don't play them instead as well

In addition to that it would be helpful for me and the community if you say to which point are you so strongly against. Marni realm will still be there, could even be buffed a bit, but not to the state to become the ultimate best place to grind.

5 10
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Xexaza
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