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UTC 23 : 17 May 21, 2024
CEST 1 : 17 May 22, 2024
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#Community Support
Shai Protest April 24th Med 1 Heidel
Apr 9, 2024, 17:12 (UTC)
3218 101
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Last Edit : Apr 29, 2024, 18:58 (UTC)
# 1

Shai needs a rework. We've spoken out a lot about it, with no support, and PA has ceased being a part of the solution as they have spent a lengthy amount of time ignoring our polite statements and watched as the class population fell into decline to the point where guilds are begging avg players to reroll to shai to be a buff slave. But enough is enough! The time is now, work with us to change it so that more players can enjoy playing the class without feeling like slaves. 

What do we want? Full Shai Rework.

This is a leap of faith and I'm unsure how many will join us in boycotting. However, I will be on Med 1 in Heidel boycotting PvE as well as PvP and socializing with signs asking for 'Shai Rework'. Join me if you can and show your support. This is planned to last at least a week but if needed we may look at extending it even longer. Anything you can do to support this boycott starting April 24th would be appreciated. Please feel free to leave a post if you agree with this cause.

___________________________________________________________________________

Upon reviewing several posts and discussions throughout the day about the issues and desired results, it has become apparent that this informative post should mention some of the core problems causing this reaction rather than saying, 'Go read forums.'

The core issue revolves around buffing, which is not fun for Shais and is too OP for PvP. This is the most significant aspect of the class, and without it then hardly anyone would play it because buffs are the focus of the class. However, buffs are very strong in PvP and feel so necessary that one person late to a fight getting buffs is more important than any other shai skill. This makes guilds prone to basically not do anything else. Another issue is PvP dmg ratios which are so low that Shais have no hope of dealing any meaningful damage against BIS end game players. Finally, Shai has no survivability compared to what she had in 2018 when the class was released.

Playing a Shai in 2024 is just buffing every 10s or whenever possible. I'll do my best to discuss each other skills, how they work and feel. Starting with heals then moving into debuffs, crowd control, and ap buffs, and core buffs.

Healing
We have two main heals. Our first heal is Get Well which heals for 2100hp over 3 ticks of 700hp. In the current game this unprotected skill has a 1min 30sec CD where you usually get CC'd and killed. Because of this, the name should be changed from Get Well to Get Rekt (joking), but honestly, just buff the healing significantly and call this the high-risk high-risk, reward healing meant mainly for healing the shai when safe, which would explain the long cooldown and lack of protection. Our second heal is awesomely-protected and shows that PA knows how to make a good healing skill for our class as it requires players to be in close range, is quick and effective as it heals for 2,250hp on a 20 second cooldown. I don't really have a lot to say about this skill and improvement since it fits and does a good job as a supportive low risk skill. We also have a heal over time (Cheer up) that hasn't been buffed in years and is cool but forgettable 300hp every 5s for 60s with a melee size aoe healing up to 3,600hp over its duration. This heal has grown on me a bit and I think it could be slightly buffed maybe in its aoe size but it does help players get back into the game. I nearly forgot our 200% (Get Well) heal which heals for 10,000 hp over 10 ticks, grants the Shai 300dp for 20s and gives allies 100% crit hit for 30s. This skill is strong in terms of healing, the crit hit rate is nice for like 2 classes in the game who don't already have a near 100% crit rate. The DP would be nice if it worked but sadly, use of this 200% usually results in death because Shais just can't take damage like we used to. Perhaps a buff to Shai survivability would help. I would also suggest buffing the AoE range so Shais could more reliably ensure players are receiving their heals. Currently, it's more of a distraction than a supportive skill as the Shai assumes a target dummy pose for 5s in front of the enemy team; this could be improved.

Debuffs
Here we get into four main skills. We have Misty haze which is a debuff that breaks the game by obliterating DP and removing 25% of evasion and DR. It can work in capped content if enemy players really lack gear but is mostly ineffective against players with any serious gear in capped content and can work wonders in uncapped but shais die too quickly for it to be reliably deployed. Despite that lack of effectiveness against players in capped content, it is commonly believed (without any proof) to reduce structure defenses and allow faster kills of forts and supportive structures making it a 'base killer' move that preempts many attacks and makes Shai a high priority target for enemies. Delusive Light is also a strong skill that reduces players' accuracy by 12%, movement speed by 25%, AP by 26, and most notably, crit hit rate by 50%. This skill is so strong in capped content, but because shais have no survivability it is unreliable and rarely used compared to buffs which are very reliable and just as empowering. So much like our heals we have a long powerful CD skill with a filler skill that is meaningful, debuffs are great and PA did a great job with them but we lack the survivability to use them effectively. Finally, Shais also have suns fury which is a debuff skill which reduces attack/casting and movement speed by 20% and stacks with all other debuffs as all shai skills stack. (This does not bypass the slow cap limit) Suns Fury is really nothing to write home about but it is an interesting skill and could be improved to be more meaningful given it has a very small range and slows the shais movement to a crawl. Suns Fury is only ever considered for use if we have the "We are gonna win" buff activated and even then the question is whether other skills, buffs, debuffs, or heals would not be better. Mainly this skill is used when all allies are at full HP and an enemy is already CC'd then you can delusive light into suns fury for massive debuffs/slows. Suns Fury does not really stand on its own merit.

Crowd Control
This use to be a huge part of what it meant to play a shai. Forest Echo used to be able to tank a lot of damage when receiving occasional healing from other shares or casters to stay as a physical deterrent against enemy players' advancement, this helped to punish poor positioning strategies that pushed through narrow passages and encouraged quick mobility to control objectively strong positions for attack. This was countered through accuracy gear prioritization by enemy where some players on ranged classes who could snipe the shais doing forest echo from range, grab classes who could rush into the attacks and immediately grab the Shai. This was far too powerful and shai was far too protected back in 2019 but because many classes now have SA rotations on their damage abilities then they usually don't have any issue moving past this zone control and even in some cases killing the Shai with impunity. It still punishes bad players and bad choices or can catch people off gaurd but overall it is far more balanced in the current SA meta. What Shai lacks is just survivability, Forest Echo does not need any changes at all. Earth's Tremble much like Suns Fury is a mostly unused skill that is only ever considered while under the effects of the 'We are gonna win' buff. It can be effective in high risk situations where a Shai needs to assist while remaining outside of melee range. In the current meta it is nothing but a gamble on a 0-10% chance to stun the enemy depending on skill but that could be all you need to win if you have allies at the ready. This skill could be slightly improved with some debuffs or stay the same.

AP Buffs

When was the last time anyone called out for leaf buff? (Outta my way 30ap for 60s) For me... like 4 years, which is such a joke. Still most Shais religiously pop this every minute and enjoy their quick buffs, in PvP it is only used when around large groups. Nothing could really improve this skill other than increased AoE range. Shais other AP buff called "Do It Better" grants 30ap and 5% special attack damage is in a similar boat where it is rarely called for but still feels good and could improve by having a larger AoE. I don't really think much more needs to be said here. The cooldowns are good and effective with one long powerful CD and one regularly used short cooldown skill. They're very situational but powerful buffs. Our BSR skill attack and consume are cool party buffs for buffing Crit hit rate which again is useful for only a few classes but Shai is one and it is nice to get crit hit rate from her 100% while also buffing party members crit hit rate.


Core Buffs

Everything above is less important than this section here. Reading this sentence and the previous sentence has taken you more time than it takes a Shai to give out 'Buffs' discussed in this section. Shai players are expected to use these unprotected buffs every 10 seconds for the duration of any fight or contest, with the only exception being their own survival or the deployment of quick and low-risk healing. Everything and every skill I talked about before is less important than casting "Sun Moon Stars" (Atk/Cast Speed +25%, movement speed +25%), Shout to the Sky (+1500 max hp & +150hp 2s/10s & +500hp), "Time To Shine" (+4.5% BSR 10s/60s), and "Summer Rain" (+40% All Resistance). These buffs last 60s and granting even a single player these buffs can be more valuable than the entirety of the rest of the Shai kit. As a result, despite the lengthy duration, Shai players are expected to spam these skills as much as possible. Shai buffs are 60s duration but shais must buff every 10s because some players arrive late (RBFing) and then get mad saying 'whole war no buffs kick shais'. In addition, if u buff every 10s then even if you die nearby players have at least some extra time on buffs. So refreshing buffs that are active is also necessary. Therefore, team leads just ask Shais to buff ad nauseam. These buffs are OP and need some kind of limit. This gameplay is what Shais are calling buff slaves because it feels like we are treated as nothing more than machines meant to dispense buffs to allies. I love buffs but the class is more than just buffs.

The current design feels like a hard failure but also a near success. If PA can fix the issues talked about here then Shai can be a more active support with less focus on only buffing all the time.


TLDR:

The main issues are that DP Shai Surv is too low, heals are somewhat unreliable and risky, buffs are boring and OP but also turn players into slaves, and AP Shais got Murdered by some random dev agenda. Here is a video:

How to fix: (Or Just Do A Full Rework PLZ & ignore this!!!)
Twinkle Sparkle: <- anything
More Florang in PvP it's a whole ignored half of our kit, just add debuffs to it and stuff like freeze (as we use to have in addon)
Make Sharing is Caring & Over There! Immune to dmg.
Give shai an evasion passive. (fixes surv issues)
Give shai a real evasion offhand that can be made fiery, Rosar is not competitive with debo-level accessories, blackstars, and builds. (Fixes surv issues)
Make summer rain, sun moon stars, shout to the sky, time to shine, 10min duration and 9 minute CD but do not give Shais these buffs when activated. Instead, make it so Shais will always have these buffs as part of a passive. (No more buff slaves.)
Make 'We are going to win' (WGW) standard playstyle and no longer a skill. 
Give SA to the (WGW) style Delusive Light and Misty Haze so they are no longer vulnerable. The cost is already in the potato lvl limited-mobility.
Buff the healing from 'Get Well' to be 6,000.
When using her 200% heal, 'Get Well' and while in animation, Shai should heal herself for 2000hp on tick. Increase the AOE size.
DMG Ratios for damage from Shais to other classes have been improved slightly to allow more damage in PvP to classes that Shai struggles to damage.
Improve movement speed of hops while using talent skills slightly.

___________________________________________________________________________

Why me and why now? I'm nobody special just a vocal player and one who has tried to support the community and the game for years. I love BDO and I have tried for some time to stay relatively quiet to allow others to take forward what they feel is needed. What I've found is silence, the quiet killer of game communities. Whenever players don't feel like there is a means towards change and things stagnate, they don't fight but rather quit. I saw this happen with a large amount of AP Shais quit, which for the record I am not because I don't have any desire to kill others with my support class. However, I did get a front-row seat to what it is like to see a playstyle be systematically removed and my community suffer for it which is why I include it every chance I can as a reminder. I don't want to see my community quit on BDO or become something like Awakening Kunoichi. Seeing that happen to Shai, BDO's only dedicated support class, would truly be the death of this game to me. I hope that the staff at PA realize that I can be abrasive, stubborn, and outlandish, maybe even a bit immature, but at the end of this post, I'm just trying to convey some information. The silence is the real enemy. If you don't want to deal with loud players then my suggestion would be that you cycle through classes and address some necessary but minor stat changes every month. While simultaneously cycling a second team for bigger changes, to classes or specs that need big overhauls which may mean some changes reverted or overwritten as time goes by but in this way the small changes float the players long enough for a big WOW moment to appear with large class changes and allows everybody to know that tomorrow may entirely change their class. This means a constantly changing meta, which may not always be fair, and I know it hasn't been PA's chosen direction for years. Yet, we do have metas in bdo and went through caster meta for 3yrs and now this new meta has been around for nearly 3yrs. PA needs to make more changes more often so that players don't feel stagnation, no changes doesn't mean no meta. The fact that I'm here writing is a signal that things are not going well for Shai, and enough of us support players have already found other homes in other classes or in other games.

For the love of god please also look at Awakening Kunoichi.

Last Edit : Apr 9, 2024, 17:22 (UTC)
# 2

I agree with you.  Make Shai a normal class.

Unfortunately too many on here want to keep making Shai more of a meme..  the dancing, meme mounts/donkuanatt, would have said music but they just added that to every class...

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Last Edit : Apr 9, 2024, 18:00 (UTC)
# 3

Can count me in!

Last Edit : Apr 9, 2024, 18:02 (UTC)
# 4

I disaagree - i love shai how she is - PVE is nice with her - sure she has early problems bcs of less movement but later she start to shine
For PVP she is just difficult to learn - what i can say she need some more special attacks like down attack

Donkuanatt is NOT shai related you can do it also with other chars
and we all hope they will add dancing later also to other chars
for sure shai was easier bcs it will share mostly the same 3D model with the DokeV modells - so the dances could be easier to transfer to shai

Last Edit : Apr 9, 2024, 18:06 (UTC)
# 5

You said you want full shai rework- which is fair but you didn't specify what you want from that rework?

Are there any ideas?

Last Edit : Apr 9, 2024, 18:09 (UTC)
# 6

additional to my post -when you want to "protest" how abotu first writing stuff you want about the class - what do you dislike what exactly need a fix  - which skill  is bad for her and need aprovement - what is fine

just to protest without a correct message with infos what shai need - is not really a protest


for a protest you need to show what exactly need a change and not just change PVE and PVP

but what exactly?

Last Edit : Apr 9, 2024, 21:29 (UTC)
# 7

I've heard your outcry for specifying issues. I'll detail them in an edit to the main OP shortly. I was hoping this would mainly be informative to rally players, but I'll elaborate on the entire issue. Some others may find issues for or against, and I hope they post those ideas here.

Last Edit : Apr 9, 2024, 21:31 (UTC)
# 8

I think OP is referring to all of the topics related to Shai needing a rework.  Lots of Shai players have been expressing their frustration at being a buff vending machine for parties, and not good at much else.

I would protest, gladly, not just for Shai, but for Succession Valkyrie, Succession Nova, and other classes who PA seems to think that not being able to aptly grind is fine.

Why should some classes with Tuvala gear be able to perform just as well as others with Godr-Ayed?

Imbalance needs to be addressed.  Why not begin with Shai?

Last Edit : Apr 10, 2024, 01:56 (UTC)
# 9

Yes, we needed this one. Shai is very boring at the moment depending on how long you've been playing this class. For those who are new to the Shai class, they may enjoy her for a while but for the long term, it will not last. I'm burn't out on the current state of the class due to no changes, especially that it's mostly required a lot for Node War and Siege War. Capped content isn't fun at all because we can't disengage but maybe it's just me. ;w; 

Last Edit : Apr 10, 2024, 02:22 (UTC)
# 10

Reality is often dissapointing...

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