This.

Max level... Name them.

Softcap gear also name them. I want to see these "mmos" player bases.

If you're looking for a Korean grinder and the game is dungeon-based, would you be ok if someone say that it's the same because you have mobs to kill in both cases?

The same goes for a FFA owpvp, and a owpvp with rules. We want karma and other rules. Not to mention that FFA owpvp is not the best choice if you are looking for a balanced pvpve, there needs to be rules, limits to the conflict or the pve part may be totally devoured. 

I'm not sure if your analogy really makes much sense. But its ok.

So with the rules. What rules exactly? Here is the the thing, most players did not like getting ganked while grinding. This is a fact, which is why PA just went bezerk changing owpvp. So there were rules in place for who? For what? I think I know, rules that allowed another player to grief another player:

Feeding them to mobs to make them lose xp or crystals

Killing them repeatedly even though they were likely minding their own business

Staying red because working off karma was no big deal

Creating a red alt to grief other players, while your main stayed safe.

I'm just naming a few things off the top of my head btw. When marni realm was announced a lot of players lost their minds and called it the end of pvp. I mean, one of the central themes I've heard over the many years of playing bdo was that someone took my spot or was in my spot. Now there was a way that players could have their own spot. No one complained about this except.....players who likely enjoyed griefing other people. Since the players who would get bullied would just go to their own little magical room to grind.

Here is the thing, no matter what any of you say. Understand that PA has data showing exactly what the player base is doing. Its why these changes were implemented in the first place. A lot of bdo players were so toxic towards other players that it forced PA to changed owpvp. Higher consequences, the removal of one sided decs, removing feeding players to mobs to make them lose exp and crystals.

In one of their articles about it, they said they didn't even want to do it. But were forced to changed it because they seen what the playerbase was doing. In other words, a lot of you are just hard pieces of shit who could not leave other players alone. And now we are here. And now people want to complain? Bdo is a business for PA, the behavior from a lot of players was causing new players to run away. Its the truth. The big picture is PA has chosen start to remove or change issues that runs new players from the game. It is what it is. 

Nope, there many players who were unhappy and wasnt griefers. Basicaly every person who liked to defend the spot with PvP. The people who were hapy to go to help a friend to rid of PK or karmabomber or just any griefer.
Its so funny how you dont mention other griefings like karmabombing and KSing. They stay but you dont mention them. I know why.
Your story is very mych "the thief calls to catch the thief"

But the players are still toxic no matter that PvP is gone from several months now. And if stop been toxic and stop and thing for a secont you will understand that you want PvE server 10 yers now and you still dont have it. And Marni is still not full time. And devs repeating almost 10 years that PvP is main part of BDO. But devs changed and now J is killing PvP... but still there is no PvE server, and Marni is not full time. Is it gona be? Maybe. But this is idiotic approach because you have upset PvPvE players and upset PvE players.
And yet PvE griefers will remain, the one that screams most about griefing. Wierd right.
And one more thing. The problem is not in game. And the problem is not in the PvP players or Pk players. The knew what game they chose. The problems in the other crybabies who cant bare losning nothing in a game, becasue they didnt knew what game they chose....
 

I don't mention karmabombing because it doesn't exist. Its always been a player invented term. In addition, you have marni realm and boom. Magically there is no more karma bombing and ksing. Or if you want to pvp, there is arsha. I've been playing bdo since 2017 and I've never ran into the issue. But it doesn't matter what I say or what you say. PA has the data, acknowledged there were issues and made substantial changes to remove the issue. That's all there is to it. You are can argue, debate about it or whatever. But it is what it is boss. 

Thats some flat earth society here... karmabombing exist  no matter what you say. I mean you are one person and if you right "karmabombing" in google you will see hundrend results. Or maybe google is made by those who lies about karmabombing???
Marni is the killer of MMO, why should MMO be killed? It was so fun when you meet other people, oyu fight with them, you party with them, you party to kill stronger or more players, you making GvG and so on and so on. Why Marni??? there are single player games.. If only crybabies go to single player games instead of destroing BDO. But yet not the players are guilty but the devs who made mistakes.
Arsha? How many times we should explain what is the problem of Arsha - the lack of rulles which leads to wxploit. But id you dont understand till now you wont understant ever. You are one of those people who cares only about himself and burn all other who have diferent opinion or taste.
Yes It doesnt matter. Some players wanted PvE servers for years, making polls and posts after posts. They didnt get PvE server.

The Devs didnt hear...
There was posts about removing of GvG and PvP changes with upvotes that no PvE thread wver get close, but they made the changes.
The Devs didnt hear...
For one you are right- That's all there is to it. You are can argue, debate about it or whatever. But it is what it is boss. 

You would have to explain to everyone how someone forces you to go red.

No need to. I mean most players are not lost and know that PvP is legit way to deal with KSers. For the rest I would. But lost minds who dont know what karmabomb is are very few. So no need of explanations.

Right so you intentionally go red due to you being overly emotional and not wanting to use more logical options you have available. And this is why PA has made sweeping changes to "ow griefing". Because of behavior like this.