BDO had a very nice ideas for OwPvP with cryme play. Including stealing from houses, attack on player caravans who could hire bodyguards (also players). That was befor Korea release. All that was scrapped, but I had hope that BDO will come up with some OwPvP modes that are rich on gameplay and rewards. Not just duel for spot and randoms PKs. Well instead we see the PvP going completly. Like some people joke we are going to game that will not have any PvP at all, autoplay and free armors and weapons, because too many players find doing things by themselves too dificult.

Hi Walk,

I never made a claim if BDO was growing or not. And specifically I made no claim whether PA was growing or not. What I did say and once again say that: Remember to them BDO is not a game its a business. They are looking for growth, bigger numbers and likely they identifed the openworld pvp system as one of the reason that they are not growing. Hence the change, if it was working and numbers were growing they would of never changed it. Businesses don't change things that are bringing them success financially. This shows a few things imo. The biggest being that very vocal players who liked the old open world pvp system brought in very little money to them. If they did there would simply be no change. Things would just stay the same because its profitable. 

Them/They= The company. PA is a for profit business its not a charity. You don't have to make any assumption about whether or not they are in the business to grow or not since they are for profit not non profit. Its their objective. Peace turned it into an entirely different thing. Which is what I pointed out. When you go back Peace actually said the exact same thing. That PA is going after new players, casuals etc for new money.  If the new players accepted the way the game was, then they would of never started to make changes. Which is what I was saying. The very simple thing to say is, they do not care about vets. We are tapped out, dried out. Spent money through out the years and likely do not buy much since we have pretty much all we need. So they are going to go after new players who are likely different standards for the game than the older players. So now, everything they will change in the game will be geared towards them, to keep them as active players and for the new players to spend money on the game like many of the vets did the in the past. 

Thats kind of it. All of the recent changes point towards it since the older players were fine with how things were. Yes, there were changes many players would of liked to seen. But it doesn't matter, if the older players aren't bringing any money in for them they won't really care. If you listen to the last ball, J opened up about "change" to the game. I took it as they really don't care if the game radically changes from how it originally was, that they will do it anyway. I felt it was a bit ominous to what will come. 

Yes I understand. And witht that I will stop.

Updated the post.

Ok.
Now... At first and logicaly you making right assumptions. But reality sometimes is diferent. For example Devs are humans and they have feelings. Those changes could be just because J had hiss ass kicked or there are new blood in investors that simply dont want PvP and want to change the course of the game.
I dont believe that PvP vets didnt play. One of the proof is that for 10 years (let me rimind you that the game is from 2014) people wanted PvE servers. And on every Ball Devs made statemant that they want to keep the PvP the way it is. They will say this mostly for two reasons, 1 they make money of it, 2 they just like PvP.
Changes like that usualy happen in emergency. It could be that 2022 year that Peace showed. The got scared when they have 3 other projects. But that negative income might just because of that - they didnt make calculation to pay for 3 more developer teams.
But in the end all of this is only assumptions. Your words also. There is no real data and probaly will never understand.
The facts are:
Many people are unhappy of the PvP changes.
PvE players are unhappy because there are still some PKs.
Steam charts shows reduce in playerbase, not income.
Only this.
Also another assumption. They could monitor the playerbase and could change the course of the game. For example years ago Juji, the Lineage 2 developer made a long post how partys in MMOs are dieing. It was more and more dificult to gather people to come together. I must say I expirienced it by myself. When I come from work and wnated to play we couldnt make part for more than hour. And little after that BDO come out. A game that was MMO, but game that you can play completly alone. Or atleast not dependant on other players.
The BDO OwPvP killing could also be just a move to make people want to play more in War of Roses.. Or even making WoR permament.
Who knows. We dont for sure.

I agree with you, some times reality can be different. Devs are human yeah, but often they are pressured to implement things for monotizing purposes. Even though they feel that its not a good idea. This tends to happen often in the modern gaming industry. I'm not sure what J thinks, I won't pretend that I do. So I can't really say. But I'll tell you what I personally think. The game has been around since you say 2014. And then suddenly they make guild dec changes, change karma to be family wide, then buff the karma penalities to punish red players further. Its like...after all of this time what changed? 

The only thing I can look at is all of the previous changes before that and who they are aimed at and why. We've gotten seasons, two free pens, a free dream horse, easier to reach level 60, free tet bs weapon, made it easy to get boss gear, anvil enchant system, fast travel system, main quest revamp, tried to add voice over work etc. Its all aimed towards the new player experience. And one thing new players like to do is make the game into something its not. Wow has instant dungeons, why doesn't bdo? Why not fast travel? etc

Since these new players likely are bringing in money to them, they are just going to cave in and change the game to meet their expectations more. Even if its at the cost of players who were dedicated to the game for a long time. They do not care like that since they are a business. The older players will just be sacrificed. The way things are currently, bdo can go in two directions. The first is what they are doing now, which is changing everything for the newer player in hopes of meeting growth goals. Or it becomes like what happened to Lineage 2. A full on cash shop experience, were you can't even play the game normally to progress without spending crazy amounts of money. Last time I checked you have to spend $10,000+ to mildly progress in L2. Insane. 

What are you talking about? The steam charts have shown volatile but largely steady, if not broadly positive, player growth since the launch of the game. There are have spikes that are substantially larger but those rarely last a more than a couple of months and they seem to always coincide with free weeks, shockingly enough. There could be an overall decrease in playerbase but it's not reflected on Steam.

Yep... At this point, even if they do some instanced but funny pvp or even pvpve things (let's dream!), I'd take it.

The O'Dyllita pvpve battleground could have been interesting, the former Shadow Arena had its qualities (whatever the name it had before it was put out of BDO as a standalone) but as soon as they meet a difficulty, devs and producers choose the easy way.

That's even why I'm not sure they do things aiming for a growth, I'd even think they do it because it costs less. 

Sheriff system? Too hard. Pvpve battleground? Too complicated. Better owpvp rules? Why bother, let's scrap them and seperate pvp and pve.

But that's sad, because BDO used to be more ambitious in its game design. 

What I did say was "Remember to them BDO is not a game its a business. They are looking for growth, bigger numbers and likely they identifed the openworld pvp system as one of the reason that they are not growing."

People do NOT need to be told that BDO is a "business".  In other words, BDO as a "for-profit" product.  To correct you, BDO, itself, is not a "business" -- BDO is a "product".  Pearl Abyss is the business.  But with that said, I can let that slide because you're spouting COMMON KNOWLEDGE, my dude (aside from your confusion on the difference between a "business' and a "product").  People don't need to be told that a business is there to make money, first and foremost.  Like, hello?  That's all you're basically saying to i-frame me calling you out on your weird comments here.

What I'm calling you out on is you, essentially, saying "BDO wasn't growing, they likely identified PVP as a cause of that, hence the change".

Now -- to THAT NOTION is what I'm presenting graphs.  Not whether BDO is a "business" or not, like bro what? LOOK AT THE FACTS.  The graphs, the financial reports, all this is public information.  These are NOT speculations.  I provide zero opinion on that matter -- the FACT is that Pearl Abyss (the business, with BDO being it's biggest product) is NOT "growing".  At least as of 2022.  2022 they went negative -- and 2022 was the year they made these changes. 

AGAIN -- I am NOT saying correlation is causation, which means I'm not saying "because they killed PVP, they lost money".  What I'm saying is -- you're specualting they're making business decisions to grow?  You're speculating they killed OWPVP because that's why they weren't turning stronger profits?  You say they "likely" identified OWPVP as the direct cause of this financial decline?  I say -- 

WHERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE?  You provide nothing and continue to yap about semantics and defining that BDO is a "business", as if people don't know that and can't see you floundering, avoiding my questions, and i-framing FACTS in favor of your biased takes, hot air, and made up specualtions.

You have NONE.  ZERO evidence to back up what you say a "business" like BDO is doing.  All you're doing here is peddling the same old arguments.  Semantics.  Saying I'm "twising your words".  All in a vain attempt to deflect the FACTS that PA is making STUPID decisions with their "business".  They're LOSING MONEY.  So, whether it's due to killing OWPVP or whatever -- they are NOT doing that you said a business should be doing.  That is "growing", as you put it.  They're NOT. 

So, unless you or someone else can show that PA is "GROWING" like a "BUSINESS" like BDO is "LIKELY" making changes, you're cooked.  You're DONE.  Case CLOSED.  You have NOTHING.  ZERO evidence and ZERO worth to this discussion.