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UTC 21 : 32 May 19, 2024
CEST 23 : 32 May 19, 2024
PDT 14 : 32 May 19, 2024
EDT 17 : 32 May 19, 2024
Coming Lab Change should just get rid of Evasion
May 5, 2024, 04:39 (UTC)
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Last Edit : May 5, 2024, 04:49 (UTC)
# 1

I don't understand the proposed lab change to make EV like DR where instead of taking zero damage from a successful evasion you will instead take reduced damage like DR.  It seems redundant as DR already does just that.  If PA is thinking about changing EV much like to DR then they may as well save themselves a step an get rid of EV.  PA after all has lately been in the habit of getting rid of redundant items, so why introduce redundant abilities or skills?

Furthermore, I'm not sure any of the lab changes are a good idea as they're currently proposed right now, like reducing the number of hits.  I'm not sure about PvP (I'll leave that to someone else to comment on whether that could be good or bad for PvP) but for PvE it sounds like adding more time to grinding, and I don't care to add a single second more to grinding.  And if reducing hits means more time needed to grind mobs it also means using up stamina quicker and taking longer to recover.  These changes, if not thought through carefully will throw this game further out of whack.  The devs need to carelfully think this through because it could ruin the game.

Last Edit : May 5, 2024, 11:22 (UTC)
# 2

"I'm not sure about PvP (I'll leave that to someone else to comment on whether that could be good or bad for PvP) but for PvE it sounds like adding more time to grinding, and I don't care to add a single second more to grinding."

^Elaborate please, this sentence kinda make no sense to me tbh.

Last Edit : May 5, 2024, 11:35 (UTC)
# 3
On: May 5, 2024, 11:22 (UTC), Written by AliceIX

"I'm not sure about PvP (I'll leave that to someone else to comment on whether that could be good or bad for PvP) but for PvE it sounds like adding more time to grinding, and I don't care to add a single second more to grinding."

^Elaborate please, this sentence kinda make no sense to me tbh.

Well, devs said in a previous announcement that they were planning to reduce the number of hits but increase the power of each hit so that it stays the same. But the last glab patch note didn't repeat the part about increasing the power of each hit, so I guess there is a misunderstanding here. 

I'm more surprised about the change in evasion. In the end, doesn't Dr and Eva have the same exact function with this change? 

Last Edit : May 5, 2024, 17:07 (UTC)
# 4

if evasion is indeed gonna be like DR, then i agree.

There is no point to have 1 better DR than the other DR

or 2 same DRs

43 1679
Lv 61
Adonaj
Last Edit : May 5, 2024, 17:30 (UTC)
# 5

Removing the difference would just be better overall.


Make classes mechanically tanky if that is their function like Succ Nova or Succ Drak rather than having them be arbitrarily tanky via mishmashes of stats and gear.

It would probably go a long way to helping balance these classes at the various levels of gear they perform at by simplifying the two.

Last Edit : May 5, 2024, 22:31 (UTC)
# 6

No more eva? Fewer people who can resist my ranger dmg! :D

I agree that eva was kinda a weird mechanic from the start.

"In Theory" Eva should be a base stat 'to hit,' like it is, except it shouldn't be stackable. It should just be the overall slippery-ness of a class, and classes with accuracy should have no struggle hitting them. So like... 8 of the classes are E which means they are harder to hit, and 8 of the classes are A which is that they do not struggle to hit Es.

Does that make sense? haha. I've not run eva, and when you face an eva... you realize how dumb it is. I know it's fun to be end game tanky, but it's like ??? that people can NOT BE HIT.

The problem comes in when you take into account mobs. If we go for only DR, what happens to all of the accuracy accessories and such? I'd assume you can crystal your way to hit most mobs with the kinda gear it takes to hurt them, so that deletes a big part of the game. Further, if you don't hit a mob, do they take reduced damage? Does that mean we'll be able to farm straight off with end gear on our lvl 2s vs purples?

I def think eva is weird, but as it seems like in a lot of other games, they make changes, and it ripples a lot. This is a whole mechanic that goes all the way thru pve. It'll be interesting.

I'm all for being able to move more people's bars, tho.

Last Edit : May 6, 2024, 00:33 (UTC)
# 7

To me EV is like dodge.  Dodging a hit would mean highly agile, mobile, fast.  If a person has a high accuracy and can hit a dodgy person that to me would be like good reflexes to counter a person that is fast.  And if that person is able to land that hit it should hurt, other wise a miss is a miss, not a glancing blow where the damage is reduced.

Then for DR its like someone who puts on the armor and they can take a hit.  But like anything that is tanky it takes on weight.  Weight to me should slow the person down, so the more DR should mean less mobility.

So, get rid of EV, no need to have two stats that would basically be the same.  A person who chooses to tank up gets slower, a person who forgoes DR is faster.  What can mediate the choice between the being tankier and slower to lighter and faster would be buffs and gear, that would have to be reworked to support this new change.  Either way, I have a feeling this rework its not going to be as simple as they make it sound.

Last Edit : May 6, 2024, 01:51 (UTC)
# 8

TLDR: nothing is changing in your play experience (other then improved server performance)

Let me lay out the changes as there seems to be confusion on what's changing and why.

For the hit change itself, what they are conceptually doing is taking a skill that does 10 x 1000% and making it do 1 x 10,000%.  The total damage appled by the skill will not change (outside whatever balancing, if any, they decide to do).  What does change is the relationship between accuracy and evasion, and the relationship for things like elixirs and add-ons that work on hit.  They've not addressed the later that I recall but they will likely get adjusted as well.  The accuracy to evasion problem is pretty big as it makes skills far more all or nothing.  With a 10% miss rate the 10 hit skill will apply damage for 9 out of 10 hits on average meaning you will take about 90% of the damage of the skill each time its used.  A 1 hit skill will apply full damage 9 out of 10 usages, the last applying 0 damage.  This is a massive difference in game feeling and what they're solving for.  Their solution is that you are evading damage rather then evading hits.  To put it in more quasi mathmatical terms:

Original Damage Calc

hit probability * hits = total hits

for total hits

    sum damage = (ap - dp) * (skill modifiers and whatever other damage bonuses exists)

New Damage Calc

for # of hits

    sum damage = (ap - dp) * (skill modifiers and whatever other damage bonuses exist) * hit probability

They both basically reduce to the same equation
probability * hits * (ap - dp) * (skill modifiers and whatever other damage bonuses exist) 

Basically, the change to evasion does not really change how evasion works.  They're just changing how its being applied so that they can lower hit counts without having extremely spiky damage application to high evasion targets.  As a a player, you won't feel a difference.

Last Edit : May 6, 2024, 13:42 (UTC)
# 9

Wait till they actually release the new system before you fly off the wall. You don't even know exactly what they're doing so how can you have an accurate opinion?

Last Edit : May 7, 2024, 22:12 (UTC)
# 10

If I had to weather a guess, they probably want to make evasion less of an all-or-nothing stat and just make it a flat % of damage reduction. Right now, DR works by reducing ap, while evasion is a chance to reduce hit counts. Evasion will probably see a nerf at the high end, but become more effective in low end as compared to before.

Edit: If we really want to get rid of evasion, we should get rid of pvp resists as well.

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