Okay, so I am seeing a LOT of threads lately about PvE only servers and that draws a lot of...shall we say disagreements to be kind to the discussions.  And I will admit that there seems to be more of a rash of people who seem to think killing people on autopath is fun for some reason.  Which on a horse is semi an annoyance as you have to retreive the horse (assuming you don't have the teleport from anywhere flute)...but if you are on foot...yeah free teleport.  Anyways...more to the point, is there anything we as a community can agree on? 

For example, how about we change the level where forced PvP kicks in?  Level 50 is meaningless these days.  It was worth something back in the days...but now, maybe we should change when forced PvP kicks in to level 61 is what I wanna lean towards.  You can get to 61 FASTER than you can to 50 back in the days.  That also means PvE only players can play to 60 for family fame and get all their skills and just miss out on a couple of passives.  If you all think that is too much, how about 60 than?  Or at the very least 56 so you can unlock succ/awaken?

How about we give you a 15 second tag after getting PvP hit so if you die to a monster in that window, the kill goes to the player who tagged you?  I'm sure some PvP players would like collecting the kill counts of this change.  It will reduce or eleminate monster feeding.  Is 15 seconds too long?  Too short?   Or just no to it all?

How about having a 5 min timer after you lose karma for killing somebody where killing that same person doesn't reduce your karma anymore to reduce or eleminate karma bombing?  Timer too long?  Too short?  Or you think this is a bad idea as well?

Simple answer is no. PKers enjoy hunting and ruining the game for PvEers. And PvEers don't want to suffer being griefed by the PKers. Your question is akin to asking...'Sheep vs Wolf, is there anything they can agree on?' The answer will always be no.

Honestly those who don't want to suffer being griefed by PvEers. Should play one of the many MMOs that won't sell them off for profit. The whole business model for BDO is to profit off of toxicity from PKers wanting to get more power to PK more. Once you understand this, you'll understand why PvEers who don't want to suffer griefing in BDO. Should not even bother playing this game.

I would argue 58 or 57, maybe 59, but not 60 and most definately not 61.  A person can have a "grinding alt" where they are free to act like an A-hole while costing themselves no decrease in grind time at 60 because all of their skills are unlocked.

As for the Flagging and PvP deaths, I have said it before and I guess i'll repeat it here again.

Once a person flags they should be free to attack until they have their flag turned off for 10 minutes or until they die whichever comes first, but in order to attack that person a person must flag up themselves, this prevents the "flag until the perfect time to grab" exploit where a person can't defend themselves or they'll go red.  I also think that PvP should be changed so that rather than Karma a person stays red for a stacking duration if they hit a non flagged target and that target dies within 10 seconds of being hit by any source.  The longest CC chain is what 4 seconds and if you can't get to safety to prevent yourself from dying, too bad you had many options.  When a person dies to PvP they should get a stacking death timer as well, along with a stacking XP loss starting at 0.001% capping out at 3% that happens on release, which can be negated by releasing to town (any place with storage not what is currently labeled as town).  Duels, both players flagged, GvG, and any other zero Karma change fights now would obviously not get the death timer or XP penalty.

I would also make it so that Server swapped while not red should be reduced to 2 minutes for the first hop, then 5, then 15, however if you are red on any character (see above) you have a 15/30/1h swap timer when you swap.  I would also lower the Guild war Dec to imediate, 1 minutes, or 5 minutes at an increasingly higher fee the quicker it is, because 15minutes is just an eternity, but allow the current "cheap" war dec to wait the 15 minutes, if both guilds dec each other all war dec fees should be refunded AND not count in the total war dec catagory.

Considering how "owpvp" bring nothing on the table as a game system & for any others gamesystem, unless you specificaly just want to just "kill" in the open world

there is nothing "we can agree on" to have "both side" happy ( / make thoses not liking pk suddently beeing happy to be pked, its just absurd ), unless you just provide a pve channel choice, and players would just pick what "BDO experience" they prefer regarding the with or without pk.

And just provide somes safeguard like : If one character of the family have activate flag to attack someone in the past 60days cant enter thoses pve channels, or like dont have the max karma possible on all his characters. Like that you already are kinda sure thoses pve channels would be filed only by players really willing to" pve".

Unless PA suddently totaly rework BDO to have a ArcheAge like "owpvp" with a deeper mean on a systemic level, so even player relationship ( so isnt just as blank as "i pk because spot", hodooor ) I see no reason why players shouldnt have the choice to totaly opt out that.

15s is too much, but there indeeded should be a ~5s tap period where it should be considered pk.

Every "against PvE" argument falls flat against the reality of "how would it hurt other people". I've seen them all. Let me recall something popular..

.. "Oh, but then grind spots will be over-crowded, pointless to everyone involved!" --> Don't join the PvE server, play on the normal one

.. "People will behave like a-holes and steal from others without fear of punishment!" --> Don't join the PvE server, play on the normal one

.. "What's the point of the game if you're not doing PvP?" --> The point is having fun. If for someone that means not dealing with a 15yo internet warrior, that is their fun.

.. "It's a PvP game, go into your WoW or FF14 if you don't want PvP" --> Don't tell others what to like. And don't join PvE servers with so much despised casuals. If the game wants to tap into wider audience, it would be wise to have a PvE server.

.. "But, but.. I am 650+GS, how then am I supposed to assert my dominance??" --> GTFO

Pretty convenient to make the discussion all alone, right?

But the arguments against pure pve are far more solid than that, you know that, as you've seen them all. 

Shoot. I'll easily refute them all. As long as it is "players interest", not "PA interest" (which is - to let whales feel powerful)

So, if we make it so PvP kicks in at 60, you would have to be 59 to be protected from PvP.  Being PvP free at level 61 was never an option I suggested.  But your arguments for why being level 60 and protected is bad is fair.  Also on a not mechanical level, having the current protected at 49, forced PvP at 50 change to protected at 59, forced PvP at 60 feels more natural with the 10 level increase vs making the change something odd like a 7 level change.

As for the PvP change you suggested...a couple of questions from me as I am unclear on some aspects.  So, if somebody flags and attacks you under that system, you don't damage the attacker back unless you also flag up yourself?  If that is the case, that seems to put an even more unfair penalty on the attacked in the matchup.  The person attacked already loses the first hit, but now you need to click the flag up button as well?  That seems bad.  Also pretty sure you can span out CC chains to be longer than 4 seconds.  A single grab from the instant it hits you until you get up alone is close to 4 seconds...but chaining things to be beyond 10 seconds without killing you would be some crazy level of skill so...really ignore that, it's a nit pick.  So...how long would the red timer be?  or the death timer?  It doesn't have to be exact...but ball park, what were you think?  1 hour to be red after the first PK?  1 day?  10 min?  1 min?  Same deal with the death penalty.  Also the exp lose, so when you say it gets negated when you res at town...does thatmeans if you dies like say 3 times and last whatever percentage, if you finally res at town, do you get the exp back under what you were thinking or no?  If not, might I suggest the first death not count at all to negate the attacker bonus for the fight?  So you have at least one equal footing fight before exp loss is a thing?  Also how would you prevent this from being a griefing mechanism for people travelling between towns on a horse?  On foot, just res at town is fine, but on a horse, if you do that, you would either have to remote collect for silver loss or have to hoof it back to your horse on foot from the nearest town to collect it.  If your horse had any goods on it, remote collect becomes not even an option.  And finally from a coding standpoint, how would the game realize you are ressing in a town at a town as you define it after being PKed now?  Are they going to have to make a new res system?  Is there noway this works with the current one?  More from a dev time standpoint really.

So the reasoning behind the 5 seconds?  Considering almost that entire time is gonna be taken up from a single grab...much less if anything happens before or after that.  I know a certain barbarian in my guild that could easily keep you defenseless past that 5 second mark SUPER easy.  10 gets tricky...but 5...yeah he'd have no issue with that one.