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#Gameplay_General
Fundamental changes are needed to policing in BDO
May 27, 2021, 19:49 (UTC)
10423 317
1 2 3 4 5 ... 33
Last Edit : May 27, 2021, 20:11 (UTC)
# 1

I have been reading a lot of threads in these forums, and this issue of the Karma System has been a very debated issue for years, although I originally posted this as a reply, I feel it would do better as a separate thread.

 

My opinion on why the current Karma system and the upcoming Bounty system does and will not work properly:

 

I feel the overall problem in Black Desert, especially in the North America (or perhaps even EU to some extent), is that the Western player etiquette is different from other regions and the system that is built for PVP (or to dissuade it) should be created with that mentality in mind. It should not be an universal system that applies the same rules for every single region.

 

Some of the issues do not present themselves in a region such as Japan or Korea because everyone is of the same race, have similar backgrounds, perhaps have a sense of unity, etc., factors that will affect their gameplay, so griefing (or similar) is not something that the majority of the playerbase will deal with on a regular basis, and the karma system (and the future bounty system) is built on those premises. The social norm is to conform and not cause trouble, and players in those regions will do the same in video games such a Black Desert.

 

The players in North America are highly more diverse in race, social etiquette, economic status, education, all factors that come into play when we are playing this game. Therefore the same karma system that is applied to a more similar ecosystem of players [in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc.] does not work in the West, evident by even some of the varying threads and posts here in this forum. A lot of us are taught in the West to be free to do what you want, work for what you want, and that mentality is what you experience in Black Desert. This is why some players will ask for DFS (duel for spot), some will ask for your time left, some will just swap, and some will just grind over you, etc.

 

If you do look at other MMOs and how many of them are policed, a lot of them require a more extensive teams of GMs (Game Masters), to handle toxicity and griefing for the varying Western playerbase. Perhaps this is something that is needed in North America. An example of what could work: If two players are grinding, and one of clearly griefing the other (drop gear in PVP to karma bomb, demeaning in chat, etc.); a GM will just eject the offending player from the game. Give them a ten minute timeout to chill out.

 

The TLDR version is: in Black Desert for the Western and more socially diverse playerbase the system needs to be catered to them, not apply an universal system to everyone in all regions thinking it will work. It does not work properly.

6 35
Lv Private
DinnerBathOrMe
Last Edit : May 27, 2021, 20:05 (UTC)
# 2

I agree with you on the chat piece.  It would help to ban people who are spouting racist, antisemitic and homophobic trash as well as those making personal attacks.  I agree on things like speed hacking, etc.  I disagree on so called "karmabombing."  There is no way anyone can prove intent.  If I am minding my own business, interrupting no one's rotations and am killed, I will return to defend my right to play in a certain area.  How will a GM know the history well enough to determine whether I showed up to grief someone else or whether I am simply standing my ground?  They can't.

Last Edit : May 27, 2021, 20:10 (UTC)
# 3

Yes we need fundamental changes:
1. Remove forced pvp (and simple add more arsha channels, 1 for each channels group (Velia, Balenos, etc.)
2. Remove channel change cd (more options to grind if spot is taken)
3. Add fast travel system to any node (blocked with trade items) (same as point 2, more options to grind if spot is taken).
Problem solved.

Last Edit : May 27, 2021, 20:13 (UTC)
# 4
On: May 27, 2021, 20:05 (UTC), Written by Columba

I agree with you on the chat piece.  It would help to ban people who are spouting racist, antisemitic and homophobic trash as well as those making personal attacks.  I agree on things like speed hacking, etc.  I disagree on so called "karmabombing."  There is no way anyone can prove intent.  If I am minding my own business, interrupting no one's rotations and am killed, I will return to defend my right to play in a certain area.  How will a GM know the history well enough to determine whether I showed up to grief someone else or whether I am simply standing my ground?  They can't.

With how this game works, while I don't pretend to know the true backend mechanics of the game, based on how they can ban players, they definitely track everything we do in Black Desert. Every enhancement, trash loot, how much silver you gain, and to that extend how long you have been grinding at a spot, so if you dropped gear you gear in the middle of PVP... that's evidence for example.

 

Karma bombing is a different topic entirely honestly and how that is defined is highly disputed. Some players believe if you return X number of times that's karma bombing, but I will edit my post to say "drop gear to karma bomb."

6 35
Lv Private
DinnerBathOrMe
Last Edit : May 27, 2021, 20:27 (UTC)
# 5
On: May 27, 2021, 20:11 (UTC), Written by Kp

With how this game works, while I don't pretend to know the true backend mechanics of the game, based on how they can ban players, they definitely track everything we do in Black Desert. Every enhancement, trash loot, how much silver you gain, and to that extend how long you have been grinding at a spot, so if you dropped gear you gear in the middle of PVP... that's evidence for example.

 

Karma bombing is a different topic entirely honestly and how that is defined is highly disputed. Some players believe if you return X number of times that's karma bombing, but I will edit my post to say "drop gear to karma bomb."

I hate the dropping gear crap and I never do it.  

Last Edit : May 27, 2021, 20:34 (UTC)
# 6
On: May 27, 2021, 20:09 (UTC), Written by Senemedar

Yes we need fundamental changes:
1. Remove forced pvp (and simple add more arsha channels, 1 for each channels group (Velia, Balenos, etc.)
2. Remove channel change cd (more options to grind if spot is taken)
3. Add fast travel system to any node (blocked with trade items) (same as point 2, more options to grind if spot is taken).
Problem solved.

ROFL!! Wtf?.,..No. To all 3.

May as well make a whole another game...which they are. Its called Crimson Desert. Be patiant.

If anything.this game needs locked channels..but thats never going to happen.

Perhaps then accountability will come into play.

Last Edit : May 27, 2021, 21:10 (UTC)
# 7
On: May 27, 2021, 20:34 (UTC), Written by Kynreaa

his game needs locked channels

So why console verision don't have channel change cd as I read.
People who disagree with what I wrote just don't have ANY arguments. That's all.
These changes make everyone happy: people who don't want pvp don't have it, people who want pvp they have it and can't cry here on pseudo "karmabombing". Players do not interfere with each other because they can quickly change the place where they play.
These are the foundations for increasing playability and removing toxicity from the game

Last Edit : May 27, 2021, 21:24 (UTC)
# 8
On: May 27, 2021, 21:08 (UTC), Written by Senemedar

So why console verision don't have channel change cd as I read.
People who disagree with what I wrote just don't have ANY arguments. That's all.
These changes make everyone happy: people who don't want pvp don't have it, people who want pvp they have it and can't cry here on pseudo "karmabombing". Players do not interfere with each other because they can quickly change the place where they play.
These are the foundations for increasing playability and removing toxicity from the game

Then im for all the Mobile version changes that will never happen.

Last Edit : May 27, 2021, 21:55 (UTC)
# 9

You also need to keep in mind Kp the threads about the karma system being bad are also endlessly being made by the same 2 people who also are known to go into a rotation that someone was already in and demand that they leave cause they say so. I won't deny, the system not perfect, but PA should hardly take the advice of people who clearly just want to grief and nothing more.

4 1172
Lv Private
Romanorum
Last Edit : May 28, 2021, 02:01 (UTC)
# 10
On: May 27, 2021, 19:49 (UTC), Written by Kp

I have been reading a lot of threads in these forums, and this issue of the Karma System has been a very debated issue for years, although I originally posted this as a reply, I feel it would do better as a separate thread.

 

My opinion on why the current Karma system and the upcoming Bounty system does and will not work properly:

 

I feel the overall problem in Black Desert, especially in the North America (or perhaps even EU to some extent), is that the Western player etiquette is different from other regions and the system that is built for PVP (or to dissuade it) should be created with that mentality in mind. It should not be an universal system that applies the same rules for every single region.

 

Some of the issues do not present themselves in a region such as Japan or Korea because everyone is of the same race, have similar backgrounds, perhaps have a sense of unity, etc., factors that will affect their gameplay, so griefing (or similar) is not something that the majority of the playerbase will deal with on a regular basis, and the karma system (and the future bounty system) is built on those premises. The social norm is to conform and not cause trouble, and players in those regions will do the same in video games such a Black Desert.

 

The players in North America are highly more diverse in race, social etiquette, economic status, education, all factors that come into play when we are playing this game. Therefore the same karma system that is applied to a more similar ecosystem of players [in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc.] does not work in the West, evident by even some of the varying threads and posts here in this forum. A lot of us are taught in the West to be free to do what you want, work for what you want, and that mentality is what you experience in Black Desert. This is why some players will ask for DFS (duel for spot), some will ask for your time left, some will just swap, and some will just grind over you, etc.

 

If you do look at other MMOs and how many of them are policed, a lot of them require a more extensive teams of GMs (Game Masters), to handle toxicity and griefing for the varying Western playerbase. Perhaps this is something that is needed in North America. An example of what could work: If two players are grinding, and one of clearly griefing the other (drop gear in PVP to karma bomb, demeaning in chat, etc.); a GM will just eject the offending player from the game. Give them a ten minute timeout to chill out.

 

The TLDR version is: in Black Desert for the Western and more socially diverse playerbase the system needs to be catered to them, not apply an universal system to everyone in all regions thinking it will work. It does not work properly.

This is actually a really well written and well thought out thread, OP.

 

I may or may not completely agree with every single detail, to the T, but for the overall general premise of your case, better "policing" in game is just a good thing. 

 

+1

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